I Closed My Business and 100 People Lost Their Jobs | Marc Mawhinney (#213) — Transcript
Marc Mawhinney returns to discuss closing his real estate brokerage, rebuilding his identity and starting a coaching business. He and Dustin Serviss explore the support entrepreneurs need, earning trust as AI changes content, and how fatherhood reshapes ambition.
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[00:00:00.080] Dustin Serviss: Join me today in welcoming Mark Mawhinney to the Picture of Wealth.
[00:00:04.000] Dustin Serviss: He's the founder and the host of Natural Born Coaches, which is a
[00:00:08.000] Dustin Serviss: coaching program for coaches, and he's been building that business since twenty
[00:00:12.080] Dustin Serviss: fourteen.
[00:00:12.965] Dustin Serviss: He shares a little bit more in-depth.
[00:00:15.125] Dustin Serviss: I'm not sure he shared too much of this before, but he rebuilt
[00:00:19.125] Dustin Serviss: basically after closing his real estate business in two thousand nine.
[00:00:23.045] Dustin Serviss: He shares about the identity crisis of that closure.
[00:00:26.530] Dustin Serviss: And unexpected meeting helped them to move forward.
[00:00:30.050] Dustin Serviss: And the conversation explores reinvention, earning trust as AI
[00:00:34.450] Dustin Serviss: continues to grow in content, and how fatherhood
[00:00:38.690] Dustin Serviss: changes ambition.
[00:00:40.645] Dustin Serviss: Welcome to the Picture of Wealth.
[00:00:43.685] Marc Mawhinney: John Lee Dumas did Entrepreneur on Fire, which is one of the early entrepreneurial
[00:00:48.085] Marc Mawhinney: podcast when it was a novel thing.
[00:00:49.845] Marc Mawhinney: So he started in twenty twelve.
[00:00:51.365] Marc Mawhinney: I started my show in twenty fourteen, And he was the one that really
[00:00:55.250] Marc Mawhinney: started the whole interview and entrepreneur, and it was daily.
[00:00:59.170] Marc Mawhinney: And he had, at one time, three million down...
[00:01:01.250] Marc Mawhinney: I was on a show in twenty sixteen.
[00:01:02.850] Marc Mawhinney: He had three million downloads a month.
[00:01:04.770] Marc Mawhinney: I was like, holy jeez.
[00:01:05.730] Marc Mawhinney: Like, going on a Oprah or something.
[00:01:12.085] Marc Mawhinney: Decker area has a podcast.
[00:01:13.925] Marc Mawhinney: But anyways, I joined John and his now wife at their podcaster's
[00:01:18.165] Marc Mawhinney: paradise is what it was called, and that got my show started in twenty
[00:01:22.190] Marc Mawhinney: fourteen.
[00:01:22.830] Marc Mawhinney: And what's funny is I thought, man, I'm too late to the party.
[00:01:25.470] Marc Mawhinney: It was...
[00:01:25.870] Marc Mawhinney: I launched mine November twenty fourteen.
[00:01:27.950] Marc Mawhinney: Like, I was too late.
[00:01:28.910] Marc Mawhinney: If I wish I had launches in twenty twelve like John or whatever.
[00:01:32.555] Marc Mawhinney: And now I talk to people, but, hey.
[00:01:34.155] Marc Mawhinney: I'm like, hey.
[00:01:34.555] Marc Mawhinney: You should start a podcast.
[00:01:35.595] Marc Mawhinney: Oh, no.
[00:01:35.995] Marc Mawhinney: You've been out of twenty fourteen.
[00:01:37.195] Marc Mawhinney: It's too late for me.
[00:01:38.075] Marc Mawhinney: I'm like, best time...
[00:01:39.115] Marc Mawhinney: It's like the Chinese...
[00:01:40.075] Marc Mawhinney: Or no.
[00:01:40.395] Marc Mawhinney: Sorry.
[00:01:40.635] Marc Mawhinney: The...
[00:01:40.955] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:01:41.275] Marc Mawhinney: Chinese thing to...
[00:01:42.155] Marc Mawhinney: Saying about planting a tree, best time to do it is twenty years ago.
[00:01:45.675] Marc Mawhinney: Next best time is today.
[00:01:46.940] Marc Mawhinney: But I went daily for the first year, and I was like, man, this
[00:01:50.340] Marc Mawhinney: is nuts.
[00:01:50.660] Marc Mawhinney: I gotta pull back because there wasn't enough time with a new show every
[00:01:53.780] Marc Mawhinney: day to really promote that episode because you're on to the next one.
[00:01:57.060] Marc Mawhinney: So I went...
[00:01:57.700] Marc Mawhinney: Then went to five days a week, Monday to Friday.
[00:01:59.940] Marc Mawhinney: Then I went to three days a week, and then I've landed on weekly,
[00:02:03.345] Marc Mawhinney: and I've done that for probably the last seven or eight years.
[00:02:06.785] Marc Mawhinney: So Yeah.
[00:02:07.345] Marc Mawhinney: An episode of thousands coming out November sixteenth.
[00:02:10.145] Marc Mawhinney: So Very cool.
[00:02:11.665] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:02:11.905] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:02:12.145] Dustin Serviss: And I think that's it's common for for owners to scrutinize themselves.
[00:02:15.790] Dustin Serviss: I I would ask...
[00:02:17.070] Dustin Serviss: So I did the other day.
[00:02:18.030] Dustin Serviss: I was getting knocked down on myself, but I was like, I gotta have
[00:02:20.510] Dustin Serviss: a check-in because I...
[00:02:22.270] Dustin Serviss: It's like money.
[00:02:23.230] Dustin Serviss: And for a lot of years, it was the money in my bank account
[00:02:26.030] Dustin Serviss: equated to my worth and how good I'm doing.
[00:02:29.375] Dustin Serviss: So for the podcast to just check-in and say, hey, I'm at two
[00:02:33.455] Dustin Serviss: two twelve.
[00:02:34.175] Dustin Serviss: So it's like, I got two hundred twelve episodes and maintain this sort of
[00:02:38.255] Dustin Serviss: cadence.
[00:02:39.295] Dustin Serviss: What is that in sort of podcast land?
[00:02:42.735] Dustin Serviss: And apparently, it's only three percent of podcast would make it that
[00:02:46.810] Dustin Serviss: far.
[00:02:47.450] Dustin Serviss: Most podcasts make it three episodes.
[00:02:49.610] Marc Mawhinney: I had a call today with someone who had a hundred and thirty two
[00:02:52.330] Marc Mawhinney: episodes, and I said, jeez.
[00:02:54.250] Marc Mawhinney: You must be in the top one or two percent.
[00:02:56.170] Marc Mawhinney: That was at a hundred and thirty two episodes.
[00:02:58.575] Marc Mawhinney: So, yeah, I'm shocked it's even three percent made that far.
[00:03:01.775] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:03:02.735] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:03:02.975] Dustin Serviss: And the...
[00:03:03.535] Dustin Serviss: There's millions of podcasts on sort of the thing.
[00:03:07.215] Dustin Serviss: There's only about five hundred thousand active ones that are producing new
[00:03:11.375] Dustin Serviss: content.
[00:03:11.855] Marc Mawhinney: It's funny you mentioned this just to give you an update on what I'm
[00:03:15.050] Marc Mawhinney: working on.
[00:03:15.850] Marc Mawhinney: So this ties into the real estate closure from o nine
[00:03:20.250] Marc Mawhinney: is when I went through that experience, I realized how little
[00:03:24.490] Marc Mawhinney: support there is for entrepreneurs.
[00:03:25.493] Marc Mawhinney: It's
[00:03:27.535] Marc Mawhinney: entrepreneurs.
[00:03:27.668] Marc Mawhinney: It's...
[00:03:27.802] Marc Mawhinney: You're very lonely.
[00:03:28.202] Marc Mawhinney: You're...
[00:03:28.335] Marc Mawhinney: I was Hitler, public enemy number one, piece of shit.
[00:03:31.375] Marc Mawhinney: I planned this closure, and hundred people are without jobs.
[00:03:35.375] Marc Mawhinney: And I'm not trying to say I'm perfect.
[00:03:36.895] Marc Mawhinney: I would definitely do some things different, but I realized in twenty twenty
[00:03:40.895] Marc Mawhinney: six, it it hasn't really changed.
[00:03:42.130] Marc Mawhinney: There's not a lot of support for those entrepreneurs.
[00:03:45.330] Marc Mawhinney: I've had to transition a few times in my life with it.
[00:03:48.130] Marc Mawhinney: And, again, what I've learned that the older I get is not to get
[00:03:51.330] Marc Mawhinney: too tied into a certain outcome.
[00:03:53.330] Marc Mawhinney: The...
[00:03:53.650] Marc Mawhinney: Think, okay.
[00:03:54.210] Marc Mawhinney: This is my identity.
[00:03:55.250] Marc Mawhinney: I'm this type person.
[00:03:56.505] Marc Mawhinney: I gotta do this for rest.
[00:03:57.625] Marc Mawhinney: Like, it's like, no.
[00:03:58.345] Marc Mawhinney: You kinda have to be like Bruce Lee talks about the water going around
[00:04:01.545] Marc Mawhinney: a rock.
[00:04:02.345] Marc Mawhinney: Water doesn't get stopped by a rock.
[00:04:03.785] Marc Mawhinney: You gotta be flexible, kinda go around.
[00:04:05.865] Marc Mawhinney: I think entrepreneurs need to not tie too much of their identity.
[00:04:09.440] Marc Mawhinney: Hey.
[00:04:09.600] Marc Mawhinney: You gotta take a bit of detachment, which is tough for entrepreneurs because we're
[00:04:13.200] Marc Mawhinney: not always wired that way.
[00:04:15.120] Marc Mawhinney: So, yeah, if you wanna talk about transition, I'm an open book.
[00:04:18.560] Dustin Serviss: So if I heard you right, it's like you had to reinvent
[00:04:22.800] Dustin Serviss: and entrepreneurs.
[00:04:25.065] Dustin Serviss: Is it safe to say that entrepreneurs, as much as there's so much resources
[00:04:29.625] Dustin Serviss: out there, it is a lonely place sometimes because
[00:04:33.625] Dustin Serviss: of our own barriers?
[00:04:35.865] Marc Mawhinney: There's a mis misconception, I think, out there that entrepreneurs have it all figured
[00:04:39.880] Marc Mawhinney: out and they're all the rich.
[00:04:41.720] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:04:42.120] Dustin Serviss: Let's get into it.
[00:04:42.840] Marc Mawhinney: You see this now politically when it comes to the attack on capitalists,
[00:04:47.080] Marc Mawhinney: and billionaires are the reason for people not doing
[00:04:51.395] Marc Mawhinney: what they want in life.
[00:04:52.675] Marc Mawhinney: I'm sure there are bad billionaires.
[00:04:54.115] Marc Mawhinney: Don't get me wrong.
[00:04:54.995] Marc Mawhinney: But overall, you look at people who are building these amazing things, and
[00:04:58.995] Marc Mawhinney: they get vilified because they make a lot of money.
[00:05:01.315] Marc Mawhinney: And I'm like, they should be making a lot of money for what they're
[00:05:04.515] Marc Mawhinney: doing.
[00:05:05.130] Marc Mawhinney: But if you look at Hollywood's a perfect example of how they scapegoat the
[00:05:10.090] Marc Mawhinney: the rich people.
[00:05:10.970] Marc Mawhinney: So it's always the small town baseball team, and the rich evil
[00:05:15.210] Marc Mawhinney: capitalist wants to buy the baseball field to put in a toxic waste dump
[00:05:19.485] Marc Mawhinney: to make more money or whatever.
[00:05:21.325] Marc Mawhinney: You got...
[00:05:21.725] Marc Mawhinney: I love the That's where we go I love the Spider Man movies back
[00:05:25.005] Marc Mawhinney: in the early two thousands with Tobey Maguire.
[00:05:27.005] Marc Mawhinney: And so you got Norman Osborne and Green Goblin.
[00:05:29.485] Marc Mawhinney: He's a rich industrialist evil type thing or whatever.
[00:05:33.325] Marc Mawhinney: I've always said entrepreneurs make the world go round, but they don't get anywhere
[00:05:37.220] Marc Mawhinney: near the type of credit that they deserve.
[00:05:40.500] Marc Mawhinney: So, yeah, when I've...
[00:05:41.860] Marc Mawhinney: As someone who's been through a business closure, I know that when you put
[00:05:45.220] Marc Mawhinney: everything into a business and you lose it all, you've got no safety net.
[00:05:48.980] Marc Mawhinney: You've gone through tons of sleepless nights.
[00:05:51.605] Marc Mawhinney: You've poured every penny into it.
[00:05:53.605] Marc Mawhinney: And I'm not trying to minimize it for employees who go through a business
[00:05:56.885] Marc Mawhinney: closure, but they usually have government support or some sort of program with
[00:06:00.965] Marc Mawhinney: unemployment to get back on their feet, or they can move on to other
[00:06:04.500] Marc Mawhinney: opportunities as well.
[00:06:05.700] Marc Mawhinney: I wish entrepreneurs got more credit for what they do for the economy.
[00:06:10.340] Dustin Serviss: Well...
[00:06:10.500] Dustin Serviss: And on that topic, you...
[00:06:12.740] Dustin Serviss: Can you give me an example of
[00:06:16.045] Dustin Serviss: that sleepless night or as you're trying to process?
[00:06:21.245] Dustin Serviss: And there's so many things I could ask about, but it's a...
[00:06:23.725] Dustin Serviss: It can confide it down to your identity as the owner
[00:06:27.965] Dustin Serviss: of that business.
[00:06:29.460] Dustin Serviss: Share the business if you want.
[00:06:30.500] Dustin Serviss: Don't share it if you don't want.
[00:06:31.940] Dustin Serviss: But it's like you are that business, and you are gonna decide to close
[00:06:36.020] Dustin Serviss: it.
[00:06:36.660] Dustin Serviss: What what are the levers that you're pulling in your head?
[00:06:40.900] Marc Mawhinney: So for me, I lost it all with a real estate business.
[00:06:44.655] Marc Mawhinney: I've lost it all a few times.
[00:06:46.175] Marc Mawhinney: It's the life...
[00:06:47.215] Marc Mawhinney: You know, that not meme.
[00:06:48.415] Marc Mawhinney: It's a drawing where it says what we think success is, and it's a
[00:06:51.375] Marc Mawhinney: straight line going up, like cocky, sick growth.
[00:06:54.175] Marc Mawhinney: What success really is, and it looks like a family circus cartoon where it's
[00:06:57.600] Marc Mawhinney: moving all around or whatever.
[00:06:59.360] Marc Mawhinney: That's my life.
[00:07:00.640] Marc Mawhinney: What people don't see with entrepreneurs, true story, and this...
[00:07:05.040] Marc Mawhinney: Maybe this is a little bit gross, but I could tell you because it...
[00:07:07.760] Marc Mawhinney: I think it sums up what entrepreneurs go through.
[00:07:10.405] Marc Mawhinney: When I went through my business closure first, I was very much, you know,
[00:07:14.325] Marc Mawhinney: the poster with the kitten hanging on the clothesline to hang in there?
[00:07:18.085] Marc Mawhinney: That thing that was, like, big in the seventies, eighties, or whatever.
[00:07:21.605] Marc Mawhinney: That was me.
[00:07:22.245] Marc Mawhinney: So I don't think entrepreneurs, they don't go into a business thinking it's gonna
[00:07:25.685] Marc Mawhinney: close, but they also hang on longer than they should because by nature,
[00:07:29.870] Marc Mawhinney: they're very much never give up.
[00:07:32.270] Marc Mawhinney: Let me see.
[00:07:32.830] Marc Mawhinney: Oh, I don't...
[00:07:33.390] Marc Mawhinney: I...
[00:07:33.550] Marc Mawhinney: The coins in my...
[00:07:34.510] Marc Mawhinney: I'm gonna show you just so you believe me here.
[00:07:37.070] Marc Mawhinney: So I carry a coin with me, and it's got two sides.
[00:07:40.110] Marc Mawhinney: The first one is a fest that says, don't let the bastards grind you
[00:07:44.235] Marc Mawhinney: down.
[00:07:44.715] Marc Mawhinney: Never give up.
[00:07:46.075] Marc Mawhinney: So it might be hard to see that fest.
[00:07:47.995] Marc Mawhinney: Oh, I see it.
[00:07:48.715] Marc Mawhinney: The other side is one of my favorite sayings, and it's fall down
[00:07:52.715] Marc Mawhinney: seven times, stand up eight.
[00:07:55.040] Marc Mawhinney: So I want that on my tombstone when I do kick the bucket.
[00:07:58.320] Marc Mawhinney: I carry this with me, though, to remind me that, hey.
[00:08:01.040] Marc Mawhinney: You're gonna get knocked down, and you have to keep going.
[00:08:03.760] Marc Mawhinney: It's Robin Sharma.
[00:08:04.880] Marc Mawhinney: I had the acronym, KMF, which is keep moving forward.
[00:08:08.395] Marc Mawhinney: Anyways, so I was very much that type of entrepreneur leading
[00:08:12.395] Marc Mawhinney: up to that business closure in real estate.
[00:08:14.795] Marc Mawhinney: The morning that it closed, the Tuesday morning, was just felt like
[00:08:18.795] Marc Mawhinney: the death of a child of...
[00:08:20.875] Marc Mawhinney: And this is a gross part I was telling you about.
[00:08:23.160] Marc Mawhinney: I...
[00:08:23.560] Marc Mawhinney: It was August, so the windows were open.
[00:08:26.760] Marc Mawhinney: Beautiful...
[00:08:27.320] Marc Mawhinney: Supposed to be a beautiful time of year.
[00:08:29.320] Marc Mawhinney: There was a type of flower around.
[00:08:31.240] Marc Mawhinney: We had a house, couple acres on the water.
[00:08:33.960] Marc Mawhinney: Beautiful.
[00:08:34.920] Marc Mawhinney: And there was a type of flower.
[00:08:36.360] Marc Mawhinney: I still don't know what type it is, and I don't wanna know what
[00:08:39.055] Marc Mawhinney: it is because the windows were open.
[00:08:41.055] Marc Mawhinney: I could probably identify the smell if I heard it now.
[00:08:44.015] Marc Mawhinney: It would make me nauseous because I was on my freaking knees praying to
[00:08:48.015] Marc Mawhinney: the porcelain god.
[00:08:49.135] Marc Mawhinney: My head's in the toilet.
[00:08:50.890] Marc Mawhinney: My life's over.
[00:08:51.850] Marc Mawhinney: It's awful.
[00:08:52.570] Marc Mawhinney: I'm sure if I ever smelled that flower, that smell again, I
[00:08:56.570] Marc Mawhinney: would probably just yak, just vomit.
[00:09:00.170] Marc Mawhinney: So I can say it now and laugh or whatever.
[00:09:02.490] Marc Mawhinney: Back then, I was like, oh, man.
[00:09:03.930] Marc Mawhinney: Life's over.
[00:09:04.650] Marc Mawhinney: Right?
[00:09:04.970] Marc Mawhinney: This is awful.
[00:09:05.915] Marc Mawhinney: It's...
[00:09:06.235] Marc Mawhinney: I feel like shit and everything else.
[00:09:08.795] Marc Mawhinney: And now I can look back.
[00:09:10.235] Marc Mawhinney: You take the lessons from it.
[00:09:11.435] Marc Mawhinney: It's more if you're...
[00:09:12.315] Marc Mawhinney: You had an injury and you have a scar that's kinda healed all over,
[00:09:15.915] Marc Mawhinney: but not...
[00:09:16.635] Marc Mawhinney: It doesn't hurt anymore, but you can still see it a little bit, but
[00:09:19.700] Marc Mawhinney: it's not stinging like it.
[00:09:21.540] Marc Mawhinney: So when I talk to entrepreneurs who are going through this, I always will
[00:09:25.300] Marc Mawhinney: say to them, hey.
[00:09:26.260] Marc Mawhinney: Look.
[00:09:26.500] Marc Mawhinney: I know you're not gonna believe me because I didn't believe it when people
[00:09:29.540] Marc Mawhinney: said this to me, but you will get past us.
[00:09:31.815] Marc Mawhinney: It sounds cliche to say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but it
[00:09:35.895] Marc Mawhinney: is true.
[00:09:36.855] Marc Mawhinney: And it can be a better better path for you because it puts you
[00:09:39.895] Marc Mawhinney: in...
[00:09:40.135] Marc Mawhinney: Into some different directions that you wouldn't have gone into if not.
[00:09:44.215] Marc Mawhinney: So I was watching a video yesterday, Bob Saget.
[00:09:48.350] Marc Mawhinney: Remember him?
[00:09:49.230] Marc Mawhinney: Danny Tanner, Full House.
[00:09:50.910] Marc Mawhinney: Might be before the time for some people who are listening to this or
[00:09:54.430] Marc Mawhinney: watching this.
[00:09:55.470] Marc Mawhinney: But Bob Saget had a TV gig, which he thought was his dream
[00:09:59.565] Marc Mawhinney: gig that he got in some morning Chicago TV show.
[00:10:02.324] Marc Mawhinney: And he made an inappropriate joke because he's a pretty...
[00:10:05.084] Marc Mawhinney: He pushes a boundary.
[00:10:06.187] Marc Mawhinney: You wouldn't know watching his family sitcoms, but he's pretty dirty with his humor.
[00:10:10.051] Marc Mawhinney: And he made a joke on that show, and he got fired.
[00:10:13.450] Marc Mawhinney: And he thought, oh my god.
[00:10:14.490] Marc Mawhinney: My life's over.
[00:10:15.210] Marc Mawhinney: It was because of that firing that opened him up for them to
[00:10:19.290] Marc Mawhinney: offer him the role of Danny Tanner on Full House, which is one of
[00:10:23.050] Marc Mawhinney: the most beloved sitcoms of the nineties or anytime, really.
[00:10:27.405] Marc Mawhinney: And then that led into America's Funniest Home Videos he hosted and all these
[00:10:31.565] Marc Mawhinney: other things.
[00:10:32.125] Marc Mawhinney: But all that probably wouldn't have happened had he not gotten fired from that
[00:10:35.485] Marc Mawhinney: TV show.
[00:10:36.685] Marc Mawhinney: So it's tough to...
[00:10:38.125] Marc Mawhinney: When you're going through hell, it's tough to say, hey.
[00:10:40.450] Marc Mawhinney: It's gonna get better.
[00:10:41.410] Marc Mawhinney: Don't worry.
[00:10:42.130] Marc Mawhinney: You're gonna get into a better thing, but it often happens that way.
[00:10:46.210] Marc Mawhinney: Don't put your horse blinders on and think, oh, I have to do this.
[00:10:49.330] Marc Mawhinney: So I always identified myself as a real estate guy, and that was my
[00:10:53.025] Marc Mawhinney: whole identity.
[00:10:53.985] Marc Mawhinney: Then when that was lost and that closed, I was like, who the heck
[00:10:58.065] Marc Mawhinney: am I?
[00:10:58.625] Marc Mawhinney: It's like we talked with...
[00:10:59.905] Marc Mawhinney: I mentioned Spider Man, right, with the movies.
[00:11:01.985] Marc Mawhinney: It's...
[00:11:02.385] Marc Mawhinney: If you think you're Spider Man or you're Superman or whatever superhero, then
[00:11:06.385] Marc Mawhinney: you lose that.
[00:11:07.265] Marc Mawhinney: It's like, oh, shit.
[00:11:08.225] Marc Mawhinney: I'm Peter Parker.
[00:11:09.960] Marc Mawhinney: That's it.
[00:11:10.520] Dustin Serviss: Or Clark You don't realize how much is
[00:11:12.520] Marc Mawhinney: Spider Man too, which is, by the way, the best Spider Man movie out
[00:11:15.800] Marc Mawhinney: there.
[00:11:16.040] Marc Mawhinney: He lost his powers.
[00:11:17.000] Marc Mawhinney: He already threw the whole thing in the garbage can in the alley or
[00:11:19.800] Marc Mawhinney: whatever.
[00:11:20.200] Marc Mawhinney: But, yeah, you do feel like that.
[00:11:22.195] Marc Mawhinney: You've lost your identity when that closes.
[00:11:25.715] Dustin Serviss: What...
[00:11:26.115] Dustin Serviss: Was there a moment now that you had time to reflect on that?
[00:11:28.355] Dustin Serviss: Because it was years ago of, like, the pivotal...
[00:11:31.795] Dustin Serviss: Like, the moment where you kinda, like, either took a deep breath or someone
[00:11:35.580] Dustin Serviss: said something or you did something that you're kinda like, oh, man.
[00:11:39.660] Dustin Serviss: I see this different.
[00:11:41.260] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:11:41.660] Marc Mawhinney: So during that closure, I mentioned after I got my head out of the
[00:11:45.420] Marc Mawhinney: toilet, I was getting attacked pretty bad by the local media, and
[00:11:49.420] Marc Mawhinney: I was getting threats and even death threats from strangers,
[00:11:53.835] Marc Mawhinney: which is weird to get.
[00:11:55.275] Marc Mawhinney: Now it's a little different for people because social media, it's easier for people
[00:11:59.115] Marc Mawhinney: to fire threats through.
[00:12:00.235] Marc Mawhinney: But to get physical handwritten threats or on discussion
[00:12:04.470] Marc Mawhinney: boards back then in the stone age of two thousand nine, it's weird,
[00:12:08.790] Marc Mawhinney: like, strange thing.
[00:12:09.750] Marc Mawhinney: But I had a person reach out to me who I didn't know from
[00:12:14.150] Marc Mawhinney: cities about an hour and a half away.
[00:12:16.265] Marc Mawhinney: And he said, hey.
[00:12:17.145] Marc Mawhinney: You don't know me, Mark.
[00:12:18.265] Marc Mawhinney: I've been reading about you in the media.
[00:12:19.865] Marc Mawhinney: Something, oh god.
[00:12:20.665] Marc Mawhinney: Here we go.
[00:12:21.385] Marc Mawhinney: Take your shot.
[00:12:22.265] Marc Mawhinney: And he said, I really admire what you tried to...
[00:12:24.905] Marc Mawhinney: What you built and what you tried to do.
[00:12:26.425] Marc Mawhinney: I'd love to have a coffee with you.
[00:12:28.980] Marc Mawhinney: And there are a few issues with that.
[00:12:30.500] Marc Mawhinney: First, I don't drink coffee.
[00:12:32.020] Marc Mawhinney: I'm one of the only Canadians who doesn't drink beer or coffee, so I'm
[00:12:35.940] Marc Mawhinney: gonna lose my citizenship.
[00:12:38.340] Marc Mawhinney: I didn't know him, and, also, I wasn't exactly social butterfly at
[00:12:42.340] Marc Mawhinney: that that point in time.
[00:12:43.345] Marc Mawhinney: I just felt like I put the blinds down and stay in bed all
[00:12:46.625] Marc Mawhinney: day.
[00:12:47.345] Marc Mawhinney: But for some reason, I said, you know what?
[00:12:49.025] Marc Mawhinney: I'm gonna drive, get out of town, go meet him.
[00:12:51.825] Marc Mawhinney: I had a hot chocolate since I don't drink coffee.
[00:12:54.625] Marc Mawhinney: And that was a turning point because he had also gone through business
[00:12:58.940] Marc Mawhinney: closure.
[00:12:59.260] Marc Mawhinney: He'd start a bunch of businesses, and he was telling me about other
[00:13:03.500] Marc Mawhinney: local businesses, successful entrepreneurs.
[00:13:06.140] Marc Mawhinney: Like, hey.
[00:13:06.460] Marc Mawhinney: Do you know this car dealership?
[00:13:07.740] Marc Mawhinney: They got a bunch of dealerships around the province here.
[00:13:10.460] Marc Mawhinney: And I'm like, yeah.
[00:13:11.100] Marc Mawhinney: I do.
[00:13:11.500] Marc Mawhinney: And, oh, yeah.
[00:13:11.900] Marc Mawhinney: They went under a bunch of times.
[00:13:13.755] Marc Mawhinney: And you know this one, you know that one, you know this person.
[00:13:17.035] Marc Mawhinney: And before I met with them, I felt like it was a scarlet letter
[00:13:20.875] Marc Mawhinney: going through a business closure.
[00:13:22.235] Marc Mawhinney: Like, I'm the only entrepreneur who's ever had a business close.
[00:13:25.140] Marc Mawhinney: Right?
[00:13:25.380] Marc Mawhinney: No one else has gone through this, which I know sounds silly.
[00:13:28.980] Marc Mawhinney: But after that meeting, I'm like, man, this is more common
[00:13:33.060] Marc Mawhinney: than we know.
[00:13:33.620] Marc Mawhinney: We just don't see it.
[00:13:35.060] Marc Mawhinney: And my energy was completely different, and there's less of the woe
[00:13:39.060] Marc Mawhinney: is me.
[00:13:39.620] Marc Mawhinney: I'm awful, and I'm terrible, and I should just go out in the
[00:13:43.735] Marc Mawhinney: woods and never see anyone again.
[00:13:45.655] Marc Mawhinney: So that meeting, I really appreciate him reaching out to me because he didn't
[00:13:49.255] Marc Mawhinney: have to.
[00:13:49.895] Marc Mawhinney: And even to this day, if I see someone who's gone through a hard
[00:13:52.893] Marc Mawhinney: time, could be local, could be on social media, an entrepreneur who's gone through
[00:13:54.935] Marc Mawhinney: a
[00:13:57.710] Marc Mawhinney: culture, I'll often shoot a message or a voice note or something like, hey.
[00:14:01.550] Marc Mawhinney: You're not alone.
[00:14:02.750] Marc Mawhinney: Congrats on what you built.
[00:14:04.110] Marc Mawhinney: The future will be brighter.
[00:14:05.390] Marc Mawhinney: Just hang in there, which entrepreneurs don't get enough of.
[00:14:09.025] Marc Mawhinney: I don't think they get nearly enough.
[00:14:11.025] Marc Mawhinney: So that meeting was really important for me, and I'm still friends
[00:14:15.185] Marc Mawhinney: with that person to this day, many years later.
[00:14:17.905] Marc Mawhinney: I really appreciate him taking the time to send me a message because
[00:14:21.985] Marc Mawhinney: a hundred hate messages, then you get get one like that, that makes a
[00:14:26.120] Marc Mawhinney: really big difference.
[00:14:27.960] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:14:28.200] Dustin Serviss: That's all it's...
[00:14:29.400] Dustin Serviss: It's all it takes because it really is just...
[00:14:31.480] Dustin Serviss: It's inside you.
[00:14:33.160] Dustin Serviss: That...
[00:14:33.560] Dustin Serviss: Like, not...
[00:14:33.960] Dustin Serviss: You know, something did come external, but then it's the way you processed it.
[00:14:37.635] Dustin Serviss: That could have been another coffee, a visit with a person, but at the
[00:14:40.995] Dustin Serviss: same time, it just...
[00:14:43.075] Dustin Serviss: Something clicked.
[00:14:44.195] Dustin Serviss: Now you're here.
[00:14:46.115] Dustin Serviss: When you started...
[00:14:47.635] Dustin Serviss: So after that, you started reorientating yourself towards something.
[00:14:52.640] Dustin Serviss: If you're only been doing coaching since twenty fourteen, then there's a gap.
[00:14:57.200] Dustin Serviss: What happened in the gap?
[00:14:59.200] Marc Mawhinney: So after the real estate of brokerage closure...
[00:15:02.320] Marc Mawhinney: Try...
[00:15:02.560] Marc Mawhinney: Closure, I tried flipping houses, doing real estate of assings.
[00:15:06.755] Marc Mawhinney: I think that was me not being ready to let go real estate.
[00:15:10.355] Marc Mawhinney: This goes back to the identity where I was, hey.
[00:15:12.755] Marc Mawhinney: I'm a real estate guy.
[00:15:14.355] Marc Mawhinney: It didn't go well.
[00:15:15.395] Marc Mawhinney: I didn't enjoy it.
[00:15:16.755] Marc Mawhinney: I think at that point, I was just done with real estate.
[00:15:19.920] Marc Mawhinney: I had a period of time where I worked with a local telecommunications
[00:15:24.160] Marc Mawhinney: company here, and it was a great gig because I worked from home.
[00:15:28.640] Marc Mawhinney: It was pretty much virtual.
[00:15:30.720] Marc Mawhinney: Very little out of the field.
[00:15:32.705] Marc Mawhinney: And I was able to build a coaching business while I was...
[00:15:35.985] Marc Mawhinney: I could get that done in two hours a day.
[00:15:37.985] Marc Mawhinney: I just plow through that, then I'd work on my coaching.
[00:15:40.945] Marc Mawhinney: And I told myself that once coaching matched what I was making at that
[00:15:45.345] Marc Mawhinney: sales gig, I'm going full time coaching.
[00:15:48.790] Marc Mawhinney: And that's what I did.
[00:15:49.910] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:15:50.230] Marc Mawhinney: Once it hit, it took about eleven months after I'd started it, then I
[00:15:53.510] Marc Mawhinney: started my coaching business.
[00:15:55.270] Marc Mawhinney: And that was in twenty fourteen, and here we are years later.
[00:15:59.030] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:15:59.755] Dustin Serviss: You know, now you're co...
[00:16:00.875] Dustin Serviss: You're coaching coaches.
[00:16:03.115] Dustin Serviss: And so you have a very
[00:16:06.155] Dustin Serviss: deep understanding and a lot of conversations with coaches
[00:16:10.955] Dustin Serviss: who coach other people.
[00:16:13.030] Dustin Serviss: So is there anything that you see shifting from,
[00:16:17.510] Dustin Serviss: say, even five years ago to now that
[00:16:21.590] Dustin Serviss: the feedback on certain techniques for getting people to
[00:16:25.670] Dustin Serviss: either do things or
[00:16:28.115] Dustin Serviss: behavior change or motivation or
[00:16:32.115] Dustin Serviss: people's focus?
[00:16:33.715] Dustin Serviss: I'm trying to give you a number of things because I...
[00:16:35.395] Dustin Serviss: I'm trying to go somewhere.
[00:16:36.435] Dustin Serviss: But is that...
[00:16:36.995] Dustin Serviss: Is there enough that you can identify something changing as it applies
[00:16:41.390] Dustin Serviss: to people's way of processing
[00:16:45.070] Dustin Serviss: their goals, if that makes sense?
[00:16:47.390] Marc Mawhinney: I'll say the quiet part out loud because most coaches won't admit this.
[00:16:50.990] Marc Mawhinney: They don't wanna show any vulnerability.
[00:16:53.070] Marc Mawhinney: Everything's perfect.
[00:16:54.190] Marc Mawhinney: It's the same as it was years ago.
[00:16:56.395] Marc Mawhinney: It's gotten more difficult to get clients in business.
[00:16:59.675] Marc Mawhinney: There are a lot of people hurting in the coaching world.
[00:17:02.715] Marc Mawhinney: They won't admit it again, but I know of people who consistently were doing
[00:17:07.435] Marc Mawhinney: one, one and a half million, then suddenly they dropped to two hundred thousand
[00:17:11.275] Marc Mawhinney: or three hundred thousand.
[00:17:12.290] Marc Mawhinney: Now that's an extreme example, but it is happening.
[00:17:15.970] Marc Mawhinney: And there's four...
[00:17:17.330] Marc Mawhinney: I see four main reasons why it's gotten more difficult, not
[00:17:21.330] Marc Mawhinney: just coaching.
[00:17:21.970] Marc Mawhinney: I think online in general.
[00:17:23.490] Marc Mawhinney: I'll never be an influencer or whatever, but I've studied the influencer
[00:17:27.650] Marc Mawhinney: trend.
[00:17:28.265] Marc Mawhinney: And I find it fascinating.
[00:17:29.625] Marc Mawhinney: And yet influencers who were doing amazing couple years back,
[00:17:33.865] Marc Mawhinney: five years ago, six years ago, started COVID that are now
[00:17:37.865] Marc Mawhinney: not able to do it, and they're going back to getting a nine to
[00:17:40.505] Marc Mawhinney: five job.
[00:17:41.545] Marc Mawhinney: And what I'm seeing in that world, again, that's not my world, but in
[00:17:45.390] Marc Mawhinney: the past, if they had a good size following, they could get paid twenty
[00:17:48.750] Marc Mawhinney: thousand dollars to promote a brand.
[00:17:51.150] Marc Mawhinney: And now what brands are saying is instead of paying person a
[00:17:55.150] Marc Mawhinney: twenty thousand dollars, we're going to take twenty smaller
[00:17:59.565] Marc Mawhinney: influencers and pay them each a thousand dollars Mhmm.
[00:18:02.765] Marc Mawhinney: And then get it.
[00:18:03.405] Marc Mawhinney: But then also back in the day, it was a big thing to have
[00:18:06.045] Marc Mawhinney: a million followers, and now that's not a special thing.
[00:18:08.940] Marc Mawhinney: There's more people happening.
[00:18:10.540] Marc Mawhinney: But in the coaching world, there's four things that I've identified that's a challenge.
[00:18:14.940] Marc Mawhinney: First off would be the algorithm.
[00:18:17.340] Marc Mawhinney: I think we have to say all social media platforms have made
[00:18:21.475] Marc Mawhinney: it tougher to reach people without paying for ads and everything
[00:18:25.475] Marc Mawhinney: else, and even then, the ads are a challenge.
[00:18:27.715] Marc Mawhinney: But back when I started in twenty fourteen, more...
[00:18:30.435] Marc Mawhinney: Many more people of your...
[00:18:31.955] Marc Mawhinney: They're following you or friends, fans, would see your actual posts,
[00:18:36.110] Marc Mawhinney: and that's been restricted.
[00:18:37.390] Marc Mawhinney: So I think there's a social media algorithms, and that would tie into
[00:18:41.630] Marc Mawhinney: it's gotten noisier too, more people jumping in and so on.
[00:18:45.870] Marc Mawhinney: Besides the algorithms, there's AI.
[00:18:48.075] Marc Mawhinney: Let's face it, AI.
[00:18:49.675] Marc Mawhinney: There's people think instead of hiring coach, paying thousand dollars, I'll just
[00:18:53.675] Marc Mawhinney: go with a free chat GPT or cloud account with it, and I'll get
[00:18:57.755] Marc Mawhinney: the same thing.
[00:18:58.395] Marc Mawhinney: So AI is a challenge.
[00:19:00.395] Marc Mawhinney: There is a trust recession.
[00:19:02.475] Marc Mawhinney: People who purchased a, let's say, coaching program a year,
[00:19:06.630] Marc Mawhinney: three years ago, they paid ten k.
[00:19:09.030] Marc Mawhinney: They got burned.
[00:19:09.910] Marc Mawhinney: It was garbage, which is out there.
[00:19:12.070] Marc Mawhinney: Right?
[00:19:13.510] Marc Mawhinney: So there's there's a trust recession as well where people have
[00:19:17.590] Marc Mawhinney: been burned, and they're like, I'm just not going to do it anymore.
[00:19:21.025] Marc Mawhinney: There's at least three.
[00:19:22.225] Dustin Serviss: I'd add a bonus that we see it in...
[00:19:24.945] Dustin Serviss: So in the wealth business, in the money business, as stock market goes up,
[00:19:29.585] Dustin Serviss: life insurance sales go down.
[00:19:32.300] Dustin Serviss: And as people are feeling better and better, there's this inherent sort of
[00:19:36.460] Dustin Serviss: feeling good.
[00:19:37.820] Dustin Serviss: And so when you look at risk, you look at risk different than when...
[00:19:42.060] Dustin Serviss: If your stocks are down, economy's down, and you think, oh, I better
[00:19:46.140] Dustin Serviss: manage risk.
[00:19:47.225] Dustin Serviss: And so I do think there's a a place right now where the stock
[00:19:50.745] Dustin Serviss: market is up, and people are feeling like they maybe are
[00:19:54.905] Dustin Serviss: doing better than they actually are.
[00:19:57.705] Dustin Serviss: And so now using the advice, I think, like you say, will it
[00:20:01.785] Dustin Serviss: come back full full circle?
[00:20:03.030] Dustin Serviss: We're in this euphoric AI mode.
[00:20:05.990] Dustin Serviss: It does so much.
[00:20:07.110] Dustin Serviss: People are discovering new parts of AI every day that, like we
[00:20:11.110] Dustin Serviss: talked about before, we were on air at the start of the show.
[00:20:13.670] Dustin Serviss: It's like going out, getting out of our virtual environments,
[00:20:18.055] Dustin Serviss: talking to people is so good.
[00:20:19.895] Dustin Serviss: It feels so good.
[00:20:20.935] Dustin Serviss: And so is it is it just taking a while for the masses to
[00:20:24.375] Dustin Serviss: realize that, or have we completely evolved and we're in the jungle,
[00:20:28.455] Dustin Serviss: as you call it?
[00:20:29.575] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:20:30.295] Marc Mawhinney: It's tough because I know the pro AI people will will talk about this
[00:20:34.302] Marc Mawhinney: is gonna solve cancer.
[00:20:35.784] Marc Mawhinney: People aren't gonna have to work as hard.
[00:20:38.747] Marc Mawhinney: It's tough because I'm more nuanced where I'm not completely anti
[00:20:42.822] Marc Mawhinney: AI.
[00:20:43.193] Marc Mawhinney: I'm not completely pro AI.
[00:20:45.285] Marc Mawhinney: I am a little bit skeptical.
[00:20:47.045] Marc Mawhinney: Jeff Bezos and those type people when they're promising a one hour
[00:20:51.205] Marc Mawhinney: work week given the current working conditions at Amazon with
[00:20:55.205] Marc Mawhinney: it, but I also am not the part to say, hey.
[00:20:58.085] Marc Mawhinney: Let's be Luddites, kill all AI or whatever.
[00:21:01.250] Marc Mawhinney: I also grew up with the Terminator movies, so you're always thinking about in
[00:21:04.850] Marc Mawhinney: the back of your mind.
[00:21:05.890] Marc Mawhinney: I'd rather not be hunted by Skynet going forward with it.
[00:21:09.890] Marc Mawhinney: But, yeah, it's a weird time now.
[00:21:12.210] Marc Mawhinney: So my son just started university, and I was talking to his
[00:21:16.345] Marc Mawhinney: mother.
[00:21:16.745] Marc Mawhinney: And, originally, she had said, when he was getting up to choosing what he's
[00:21:20.985] Marc Mawhinney: gonna do, she's, he's gotta pick a degree that gives a guaranteed job,
[00:21:24.985] Marc Mawhinney: whatever he does.
[00:21:25.705] Marc Mawhinney: And I said to her, I said, there's no degree that does that anymore.
[00:21:29.540] Marc Mawhinney: Things are changing so fast.
[00:21:31.300] Marc Mawhinney: He's doing something that he loves, which makes me happy, but you're never gonna
[00:21:35.300] Marc Mawhinney: have that perfect.
[00:21:36.260] Marc Mawhinney: Like, I graduated high school in nineteen ninety six.
[00:21:36.845] Marc Mawhinney: I went into university that fall.
[00:21:36.935] Marc Mawhinney: Back then, that was the
[00:21:43.115] Marc Mawhinney: expected thing.
[00:21:43.835] Marc Mawhinney: Okay?
[00:21:44.235] Marc Mawhinney: You get done high school, do university, get your degree, go from there.
[00:21:48.315] Marc Mawhinney: That world is gone now.
[00:21:50.795] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:21:51.835] Dustin Serviss: You think Atlantic Canada is different than Western
[00:21:56.170] Dustin Serviss: Canada, or are your co...
[00:21:57.530] Dustin Serviss: Your coach concentration is in what region?
[00:22:00.570] Dustin Serviss: Or all?
[00:22:01.450] Marc Mawhinney: Mine is virtual.
[00:22:02.570] Marc Mawhinney: Most of my clients and partners are in the States.
[00:22:05.770] Marc Mawhinney: Although there are a little bit in Canada, I don't focus on local.
[00:22:09.370] Marc Mawhinney: So I spoke at an event locally just about a week and a half
[00:22:13.165] Marc Mawhinney: ago, but it was because a friend was putting that event on for entrepreneurs.
[00:22:17.085] Marc Mawhinney: I want to support them.
[00:22:18.445] Marc Mawhinney: But generally speaking, I don't do any local type business,
[00:22:22.525] Marc Mawhinney: really.
[00:22:22.925] Marc Mawhinney: Anyone who's come to me, some people have joined group coaching programs or went
[00:22:27.120] Marc Mawhinney: out a print newsletter for coaches, and they are local.
[00:22:29.840] Marc Mawhinney: But it wasn't because I had an ad on a park bench or I
[00:22:33.120] Marc Mawhinney: had a table at some sort of thing.
[00:22:35.600] Marc Mawhinney: Differences between Atlanta Canada and Western Canada,
[00:22:39.625] Marc Mawhinney: I would say Atlanta, Canada...
[00:22:41.065] Marc Mawhinney: I love this region.
[00:22:42.185] Marc Mawhinney: Don't get me wrong, but it's gotten better.
[00:22:44.265] Marc Mawhinney: But it's always a little bit lagging behind other parts
[00:22:48.425] Marc Mawhinney: of the world.
[00:22:49.065] Marc Mawhinney: In two thousand, early o nine, I think I got an iPhone
[00:22:53.225] Marc Mawhinney: when everyone was all Blackberry here.
[00:22:55.450] Marc Mawhinney: And they also, jeez, an iPhone, what, you're playing silly games on there?
[00:22:59.290] Marc Mawhinney: Like, why would you get rid of your Blackberry even though Apple had been
[00:23:03.050] Marc Mawhinney: getting bigger in the states and bigger markets earlier than that?
[00:23:06.730] Marc Mawhinney: And then, of course, it caught up.
[00:23:08.665] Marc Mawhinney: But I do notice a difference when I go to an event, let's say,
[00:23:11.865] Marc Mawhinney: in the states.
[00:23:12.745] Marc Mawhinney: If I speak at something or I go to some conference, there's a different
[00:23:17.065] Marc Mawhinney: vibe or energy.
[00:23:17.945] Marc Mawhinney: And then when I come back home, it seems a little bit more of
[00:23:21.360] Marc Mawhinney: a local sandbox.
[00:23:22.960] Marc Mawhinney: And it's gotten much better.
[00:23:24.160] Marc Mawhinney: Don't get me wrong.
[00:23:24.960] Marc Mawhinney: Because when I started in the coaching world, people were like, what what do
[00:23:28.400] Marc Mawhinney: you mean coaching, like, athletics, like sports, or whatever?
[00:23:31.920] Marc Mawhinney: And a lot of people tell me when I launched my podcast, Natural Born
[00:23:35.440] Marc Mawhinney: Coaches, What's a podcast?
[00:23:37.155] Marc Mawhinney: What do you mean a podcast?
[00:23:38.355] Marc Mawhinney: This is twenty fourteen.
[00:23:39.955] Marc Mawhinney: Now everyone knows what a podcast is.
[00:23:42.355] Marc Mawhinney: So it's gotten better, but it's still lagging from
[00:23:46.355] Marc Mawhinney: other parts of the...
[00:23:47.635] Marc Mawhinney: Of North America, in my opinion.
[00:23:50.420] Dustin Serviss: Give us Cole's notes then or a view inside the coaches of the US.
[00:23:53.940] Dustin Serviss: I would agree with you that I would say the US is probably a
[00:23:56.740] Dustin Serviss: little bit ahead of us in certain things.
[00:23:58.900] Dustin Serviss: And in the coaching...
[00:24:01.060] Dustin Serviss: And and so coaching is very broad, But in the lens of coaching
[00:24:05.475] Dustin Serviss: business person who is trying to achieve something
[00:24:09.555] Dustin Serviss: and grow in that context, do you see
[00:24:13.715] Dustin Serviss: any sort of new emerging trends that the coaches are using,
[00:24:17.880] Dustin Serviss: or you just notice even in speaking?
[00:24:19.960] Dustin Serviss: Or is there any stories you could share about certain experience you had lately?
[00:24:24.840] Marc Mawhinney: AI.
[00:24:26.600] Marc Mawhinney: I swear they get AI to tie their shoes if it could.
[00:24:30.595] Marc Mawhinney: And, again, I'm not saying I'm a Luddite, but I know some people who
[00:24:34.275] Marc Mawhinney: I talk to them.
[00:24:35.075] Marc Mawhinney: Oh, g c k AI.
[00:24:36.435] Marc Mawhinney: Do this.
[00:24:37.315] Marc Mawhinney: I had someone say that they're experimenting.
[00:24:39.795] Marc Mawhinney: There's...
[00:24:40.275] Marc Mawhinney: With AI that could do podcasts for them.
[00:24:42.595] Marc Mawhinney: So I would have an AI avatar representative.
[00:24:45.960] Marc Mawhinney: You would as well.
[00:24:46.920] Marc Mawhinney: So we would look like this and mostly talk the same, but be a
[00:24:50.360] Marc Mawhinney: little off.
[00:24:51.560] Marc Mawhinney: And they're like, isn't it great you could do podcast interviews while you're at
[00:24:55.400] Marc Mawhinney: the beach and you're...
[00:24:56.680] Marc Mawhinney: And I'm like, that sounds no.
[00:24:58.475] Marc Mawhinney: That does not sound good.
[00:24:59.595] Marc Mawhinney: It sounds bad.
[00:25:01.035] Marc Mawhinney: I don't know if you saw the clip.
[00:25:02.635] Marc Mawhinney: Piers Morgan and...
[00:25:04.235] Marc Mawhinney: Had a AI actress on his show a little while ago.
[00:25:08.395] Marc Mawhinney: And she...
[00:25:08.955] Marc Mawhinney: The hot thing.
[00:25:09.675] Marc Mawhinney: I forgot her name, but all these agents are trying to sign her, and
[00:25:12.780] Marc Mawhinney: she's a pretty AI actress.
[00:25:15.260] Marc Mawhinney: So while he was interviewing her on the show, she started glitching out and
[00:25:19.180] Marc Mawhinney: talking Chinese just out of the blue.
[00:25:21.500] Dustin Serviss: So it's a real person, but she's acting like a AI bot
[00:25:25.580] Dustin Serviss: or
[00:25:25.900] Marc Mawhinney: She's completely AI.
[00:25:27.135] Marc Mawhinney: She's not a real person.
[00:25:28.255] Marc Mawhinney: They created her.
[00:25:29.935] Marc Mawhinney: She wants she wants to take the jobs of real people, basically.
[00:25:33.215] Marc Mawhinney: And she glitched out, and it was just...
[00:25:35.215] Marc Mawhinney: You could tell it wasn't human.
[00:25:37.055] Marc Mawhinney: The other one I got a laugh of, I saw a video or a
[00:25:40.015] Marc Mawhinney: reel of was a guy who got fed up with AI,
[00:25:44.070] Marc Mawhinney: a...
[00:25:44.390] Marc Mawhinney: People interviewing him for jobs.
[00:25:46.470] Marc Mawhinney: They...
[00:25:46.710] Marc Mawhinney: Like, the AI Yeah.
[00:25:48.310] Marc Mawhinney: Avatar or whatever.
[00:25:49.430] Marc Mawhinney: So he created an AI to handle the interview for him.
[00:25:53.510] Marc Mawhinney: And so he introduced the AI interviewer to his representative,
[00:25:58.225] Marc Mawhinney: and he said, I'm gonna let him handle the interview, and I'll leave.
[00:26:01.825] Marc Mawhinney: And it was hilarious because he showed what happened after he left.
[00:26:04.945] Marc Mawhinney: But when they got ready to do the sign off, they're in this loop
[00:26:08.465] Marc Mawhinney: where the interviewer...
[00:26:10.385] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:26:10.545] Marc Mawhinney: You saw...
[00:26:11.025] Marc Mawhinney: Interviewer is like, yeah.
[00:26:11.905] Marc Mawhinney: I'm all done now.
[00:26:12.705] Marc Mawhinney: Great meeting you.
[00:26:13.300] Marc Mawhinney: And the interviewee is like, yeah.
[00:26:14.700] Marc Mawhinney: I love meeting you too.
[00:26:16.180] Marc Mawhinney: And then the interviewer is like, yes.
[00:26:17.860] Marc Mawhinney: It was great meeting you.
[00:26:19.060] Marc Mawhinney: And they went on, like, the circle.
[00:26:21.620] Marc Mawhinney: So I...
[00:26:22.660] Marc Mawhinney: If I get...
[00:26:23.140] Marc Mawhinney: If it gets a point where people are like, yeah.
[00:26:25.220] Marc Mawhinney: My AI agent's gonna come on your podcast to handle, I'll be like, no.
[00:26:28.815] Marc Mawhinney: We're just not going to do that.
[00:26:30.655] Marc Mawhinney: That's sounds dystopian and depressing to me.
[00:26:35.055] Dustin Serviss: I did hear something the other day.
[00:26:36.495] Dustin Serviss: So I have a part of this thing called the Okanagan Angel Summit.
[00:26:39.215] Dustin Serviss: So every year, thirty people put some money together, and we have a bunch
[00:26:42.815] Dustin Serviss: of tech companies present, and then we give them a check.
[00:26:45.770] Dustin Serviss: And so it's a really simple way to put it.
[00:26:47.850] Dustin Serviss: But the the...
[00:26:49.210] Dustin Serviss: One of the guys at the meetup was saying...
[00:26:51.690] Dustin Serviss: He...
[00:26:51.930] Dustin Serviss: So he's a tech founder and an investor, and he said all these
[00:26:56.090] Dustin Serviss: tech startups and most of these companies have AI agents or
[00:27:00.665] Dustin Serviss: rooms built for AI to go and scrub
[00:27:04.905] Dustin Serviss: it.
[00:27:05.705] Dustin Serviss: And so he says, when I'm looking for an investment to make, I've trained
[00:27:10.520] Dustin Serviss: an AI agent on all the things I like and all the criteria
[00:27:14.520] Dustin Serviss: of my first screen when I look at an investment.
[00:27:18.520] Dustin Serviss: And I teach it to talk to the AI agent of the startup.
[00:27:23.105] Dustin Serviss: And so they have a talk, and I get an email before we
[00:27:27.185] Dustin Serviss: even...
[00:27:28.625] Dustin Serviss: Before I make a meeting.
[00:27:29.745] Dustin Serviss: And so it says, this is what...
[00:27:31.105] Dustin Serviss: It meets your criteria.
[00:27:32.305] Dustin Serviss: It doesn't...
[00:27:32.865] Dustin Serviss: And so he goes, a lot of times, you can vet a lot of
[00:27:35.745] Dustin Serviss: things.
[00:27:36.065] Dustin Serviss: And so I I did kind of my ears perked up because I was
[00:27:38.870] Dustin Serviss: like, I I do see not that application, but in other applications where
[00:27:43.030] Dustin Serviss: it's jobs like that or
[00:27:46.150] Dustin Serviss: right down to, I wanna lease a new Ford f one fifty.
[00:27:49.910] Dustin Serviss: Find me for the next month.
[00:27:51.995] Dustin Serviss: Start searching.
[00:27:53.355] Dustin Serviss: Give me a a daily report weekly that there are...
[00:27:56.635] Dustin Serviss: That's really as much as the imagination that
[00:27:58.315] Marc Mawhinney: come in.
[00:27:58.635] Marc Mawhinney: And I'm sure you get hit with a ton of podcast pitches for people
[00:28:01.995] Marc Mawhinney: who wanna be on the show.
[00:28:03.890] Marc Mawhinney: I had one recently who...
[00:28:05.970] Marc Mawhinney: She was on my show not that long ago, couple...
[00:28:09.570] Marc Mawhinney: Four or five years ago, but the pitch came as if she didn't know
[00:28:13.570] Marc Mawhinney: me.
[00:28:14.130] Marc Mawhinney: Hi, Mark.
[00:28:14.690] Marc Mawhinney: I love what you're doing with Natural Born Coaches.
[00:28:16.850] Marc Mawhinney: It was written like a stranger, and I'm thinking, yeah, she had AI use
[00:28:20.635] Marc Mawhinney: it because she was on my show not that long ago.
[00:28:23.755] Marc Mawhinney: The other horror stories I've heard, there was one guy I heard a subreddit
[00:28:28.075] Marc Mawhinney: or something owns a business, had his AI agents doing all of it in
[00:28:32.075] Marc Mawhinney: the background, and they took screenshots of his bank account
[00:28:36.080] Marc Mawhinney: and everything, all the details, put it in the company Slack for whatever
[00:28:40.400] Marc Mawhinney: reason.
[00:28:41.120] Marc Mawhinney: So all employees saw that.
[00:28:43.280] Marc Mawhinney: Another one had a AI chatbot.
[00:28:45.935] Marc Mawhinney: They're doing a company wide sale for whatever project widgets they're
[00:28:50.015] Marc Mawhinney: selling or whatever.
[00:28:51.775] Marc Mawhinney: Somebody was able to negotiate with the AI chatbot and get ninety
[00:28:55.855] Marc Mawhinney: percent off instead of the usual whatever, ten percent or twenty percent.
[00:29:00.400] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:29:00.720] Marc Mawhinney: And they were losing all this money.
[00:29:02.160] Marc Mawhinney: They're like, what the hell is going on?
[00:29:03.920] Marc Mawhinney: And the final one was someone who had an AI agent helping them with
[00:29:07.200] Marc Mawhinney: marketing and all that.
[00:29:08.640] Marc Mawhinney: And he looked at his credit card, and there's a five thousand dollar charge.
[00:29:11.955] Marc Mawhinney: He said to the AI, what's going on here or whatever.
[00:29:14.835] Marc Mawhinney: And they're like, oh, we came...
[00:29:15.955] Marc Mawhinney: I came across Alex Hermozy has a great program, which is perfect
[00:29:20.035] Marc Mawhinney: for what we want.
[00:29:20.995] Marc Mawhinney: So I purchased it because it's right up our alley with it.
[00:29:24.435] Marc Mawhinney: And that scares the crap out of me with it.
[00:29:26.995] Marc Mawhinney: So I think people are getting a little bit too overboard when it comes
[00:29:30.410] Marc Mawhinney: to AI agents doing everything for them.
[00:29:33.770] Marc Mawhinney: And, again, that's a little depressing.
[00:29:35.690] Marc Mawhinney: Like, do you hate your business that much?
[00:29:37.450] Marc Mawhinney: You don't wanna do anything in your business?
[00:29:39.705] Marc Mawhinney: What are you gonna do for a hundred and sixty eight hours a week
[00:29:42.745] Marc Mawhinney: if you're not doing anything?
[00:29:44.425] Marc Mawhinney: The AI is handling your podcast interviews and everything else.
[00:29:48.665] Marc Mawhinney: I think it's a bit of a bubble, and it's overblown, and it's a
[00:29:52.265] Marc Mawhinney: little bit silly.
[00:29:53.145] Marc Mawhinney: It's...
[00:29:53.545] Marc Mawhinney: Now this is much bigger and different, but do you remember a few years
[00:29:57.280] Marc Mawhinney: back the NFT craze?
[00:29:59.280] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:29:59.600] Marc Mawhinney: I knew some big names.
[00:30:00.800] Marc Mawhinney: Oh, you gotta get in that NFTs, and you're...
[00:30:03.600] Marc Mawhinney: If you don't get in NFTs, it's all over blah blah blah.
[00:30:06.800] Marc Mawhinney: What's going on with NFTs now?
[00:30:08.875] Marc Mawhinney: Or on a smaller scale with social media, Clubhouse was a big thing back
[00:30:12.875] Marc Mawhinney: in twenty twenty.
[00:30:13.755] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:30:13.995] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:30:14.555] Marc Mawhinney: I had so many people saying to me when it was invite only, Mark,
[00:30:17.675] Marc Mawhinney: I'll give you an invite.
[00:30:18.715] Marc Mawhinney: You gotta get in here.
[00:30:19.675] Marc Mawhinney: And I know coaches who got rid of...
[00:30:21.675] Marc Mawhinney: Got off Facebook and stopped their email and everything.
[00:30:24.440] Marc Mawhinney: They were all in on Clubhouse.
[00:30:26.280] Marc Mawhinney: And Clubhouse, if if not dead, it's on life support now or
[00:30:30.280] Marc Mawhinney: it's going the way of...
[00:30:31.320] Marc Mawhinney: And they were spending every waking hour inside Clubhouse.
[00:30:35.605] Marc Mawhinney: So I'm always a little bit hesitant and skeptical when it comes to all
[00:30:39.445] Marc Mawhinney: the lemmings rushing towards wherever because you could be rushing off
[00:30:43.445] Marc Mawhinney: the cliff.
[00:30:45.045] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:30:45.445] Dustin Serviss: And so...
[00:30:46.405] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:30:46.725] Dustin Serviss: There's so many places they could go there.
[00:30:49.050] Dustin Serviss: But I do think, yeah, that the new AI models are busting
[00:30:53.370] Dustin Serviss: up even Bitcoin and NFT thing is obviously died down,
[00:30:57.370] Dustin Serviss: but the the models could break Bitcoin is a narrative
[00:31:01.770] Dustin Serviss: that's out.
[00:31:02.475] Dustin Serviss: But at the same time, I think...
[00:31:04.315] Dustin Serviss: What do you think drives long term
[00:31:08.875] Dustin Serviss: consistent effort and energy towards a project?
[00:31:13.515] Marc Mawhinney: I think you have to look at the foundational.
[00:31:15.915] Marc Mawhinney: I was on a call earlier today with a potential client,
[00:31:20.030] Marc Mawhinney: and he was struggling with something.
[00:31:22.030] Marc Mawhinney: And I referred to him the book, The Alter Ego Effect by Todd Herman.
[00:31:26.430] Marc Mawhinney: Todd was on my show years ago because the book's not brand new.
[00:31:29.630] Marc Mawhinney: It's not a hundred years old, but I forget it's written in ten years
[00:31:32.815] Marc Mawhinney: ago or whatever.
[00:31:34.895] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:31:35.775] Marc Mawhinney: And I said to him, I said, this book is probably more valuable for
[00:31:39.295] Marc Mawhinney: this challenge that you're having.
[00:31:40.655] Marc Mawhinney: He was having a bit of a struggle selling, getting himself out
[00:31:44.655] Marc Mawhinney: there as a coach.
[00:31:45.535] Marc Mawhinney: He felt icky selling, which a lot of coaches do.
[00:31:49.050] Marc Mawhinney: The Alter Ego Effect, great book.
[00:31:51.050] Marc Mawhinney: I highly recommend it.
[00:31:53.130] Marc Mawhinney: You're adopting an alter ego, so you're putting a bit of a mask on
[00:31:57.210] Marc Mawhinney: when you go out there.
[00:31:58.010] Marc Mawhinney: So it's Bo Jackson when he was playing football and baseball, but football,
[00:32:02.345] Marc Mawhinney: he...
[00:32:02.665] Marc Mawhinney: His alter ego was Jason from Friday the thirteenth.
[00:32:06.265] Marc Mawhinney: He was stalking people on the football field.
[00:32:08.905] Marc Mawhinney: It's like...
[00:32:10.025] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:32:10.665] Marc Mawhinney: Or whatever.
[00:32:11.625] Marc Mawhinney: Beyonce, when she was getting going with her career, adopted an alter
[00:32:15.785] Marc Mawhinney: ego when she was out on stage.
[00:32:18.520] Marc Mawhinney: She wasn't herself.
[00:32:20.040] Marc Mawhinney: A book like that's very foundational
[00:32:23.160] Marc Mawhinney: versus the AI slop that's out there now, I'll take the alter ego
[00:32:27.240] Marc Mawhinney: effect book or some of these other older classics.
[00:32:29.960] Marc Mawhinney: It It's all comes down to fort foundations.
[00:32:31.895] Marc Mawhinney: Right now, I'm rereading Gary Halbert's The Boron Letters, which
[00:32:35.895] Marc Mawhinney: has a ton of gold in it.
[00:32:37.575] Marc Mawhinney: I would take that any day over just AI garbage that's
[00:32:41.575] Marc Mawhinney: out there.
[00:32:41.895] Marc Mawhinney: And that's a challenge now as there's so much AI slop with written
[00:32:46.170] Marc Mawhinney: but also with images.
[00:32:47.450] Marc Mawhinney: Have you seen the ads?
[00:32:49.530] Marc Mawhinney: Like, these restaurants have the alien menu with the pictures of the meatballs
[00:32:53.850] Marc Mawhinney: that looks like a No.
[00:32:54.890] Marc Mawhinney: Food.
[00:32:55.770] Marc Mawhinney: It's not the right way to market a restaurant, or they're using AI posters
[00:32:59.850] Marc Mawhinney: as an.
[00:33:00.625] Marc Mawhinney: I don't know.
[00:33:01.025] Marc Mawhinney: I think the more we see AI garbage, our brains are picking up on
[00:33:04.945] Marc Mawhinney: it, and we're instinctively staying away from it.
[00:33:07.505] Marc Mawhinney: I'd be hesitant to shop at that...
[00:33:10.225] Marc Mawhinney: At a business that was...
[00:33:11.345] Marc Mawhinney: Had AI slop all over with it.
[00:33:13.930] Marc Mawhinney: Just me personally, I'm thinking if you took two seconds to do this
[00:33:17.930] Marc Mawhinney: for your poster, are you really...
[00:33:20.010] Marc Mawhinney: Do I trust your food to not get sick?
[00:33:22.250] Marc Mawhinney: I don't know.
[00:33:22.810] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:33:23.690] Marc Mawhinney: Poster or menu.
[00:33:25.795] Dustin Serviss: I noticed the other day watching somebody who is taking
[00:33:29.795] Dustin Serviss: their social media to the next level, and I noticed the way they were
[00:33:34.035] Dustin Serviss: talking into the phone, that selfie video, just like talking,
[00:33:38.355] Dustin Serviss: and talking of credible.
[00:33:41.160] Dustin Serviss: They're a long time in industry person.
[00:33:43.160] Dustin Serviss: They're...
[00:33:43.480] Dustin Serviss: What they were talking about with the scope was within their realm, definitely a
[00:33:47.400] Dustin Serviss: leader.
[00:33:48.680] Dustin Serviss: But as the person was talking, I could kinda...
[00:33:52.040] Dustin Serviss: And I've used AI a lot.
[00:33:53.960] Dustin Serviss: I could notice a few words that just didn't seem like
[00:33:58.025] Dustin Serviss: their personality.
[00:33:59.705] Dustin Serviss: And so quick...
[00:34:00.745] Dustin Serviss: I was thinking, eye contact was directly on the camera at all times,
[00:34:05.225] Dustin Serviss: talking into it about the context, but then it was a little too...
[00:34:09.545] Dustin Serviss: Almost in...
[00:34:10.105] Dustin Serviss: Not in-depth, but, like, it just didn't quite feel right.
[00:34:13.210] Dustin Serviss: And so quickly, I looked up.
[00:34:15.290] Dustin Serviss: I said, is there teleprompter apps for posting
[00:34:19.450] Dustin Serviss: on Instagram?
[00:34:20.330] Dustin Serviss: And it said, no.
[00:34:21.130] Dustin Serviss: Instagram Reels now has a teleprompter.
[00:34:23.450] Dustin Serviss: It's in beta.
[00:34:24.395] Dustin Serviss: And so I pulled up my Instagram.
[00:34:25.995] Dustin Serviss: Sure enough, it goes right up at the top of the screen.
[00:34:28.955] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:34:29.195] Dustin Serviss: So what I noticed was what she was saying
[00:34:33.275] Dustin Serviss: was right, but I noticed it and I felt it inside that
[00:34:37.275] Dustin Serviss: it actually wasn't.
[00:34:38.640] Dustin Serviss: And I thought, man, this person knows this subject, extremely trustworthy
[00:34:43.120] Dustin Serviss: person, saying good things.
[00:34:44.720] Dustin Serviss: But the fact that I noticed that,
[00:34:48.160] Dustin Serviss: it it actually reverses...
[00:34:50.160] Dustin Serviss: It makes the content not as good.
[00:34:52.015] Marc Mawhinney: No.
[00:34:52.335] Marc Mawhinney: Exactly.
[00:34:53.215] Marc Mawhinney: There's the apps, like, you mentioned where if people look away towards
[00:34:57.455] Marc Mawhinney: a teleprompter, their eyes will stay focused, but, you know, it's like
[00:35:01.455] Marc Mawhinney: a very quick glitch you can often see with it.
[00:35:04.900] Marc Mawhinney: But that's a problem.
[00:35:06.020] Marc Mawhinney: I know someone.
[00:35:06.820] Marc Mawhinney: I was talking to a coach who's in my coaching jungle VIP program,
[00:35:10.820] Marc Mawhinney: and she was saying that she follows a...
[00:35:13.380] Marc Mawhinney: She's for years followed a copywriter that she really liked and respected.
[00:35:17.995] Marc Mawhinney: And she noticed this year that his...
[00:35:20.955] Marc Mawhinney: She knows his...
[00:35:21.835] Marc Mawhinney: Because she's been following him closely for years, and it's changed to completely
[00:35:26.395] Marc Mawhinney: AI.
[00:35:26.875] Marc Mawhinney: And she could tell that is.
[00:35:28.635] Marc Mawhinney: And she's like, I feel like messaging him saying I miss you.
[00:35:31.820] Marc Mawhinney: I wanna read you're not AI with it.
[00:35:35.020] Marc Mawhinney: And so many people are falling into the, oh my gosh.
[00:35:37.500] Marc Mawhinney: This is easy.
[00:35:38.140] Marc Mawhinney: I'm gonna be able to create a hundred piece of content a day.
[00:35:41.340] Marc Mawhinney: And the the people selling the shovels will say, oh, the AI sounds
[00:35:45.355] Marc Mawhinney: better than you.
[00:35:46.315] Marc Mawhinney: I'm sorry.
[00:35:46.795] Marc Mawhinney: There's no way the AI is gonna sound better than you with
[00:35:50.875] Marc Mawhinney: it.
[00:35:51.115] Marc Mawhinney: So, again, I...
[00:35:52.715] Marc Mawhinney: Not saying I'm totally anti AI.
[00:35:55.115] Marc Mawhinney: I use it for certain things.
[00:35:56.795] Marc Mawhinney: But when it comes to content...
[00:35:58.690] Marc Mawhinney: For example, I'm working on a book now, and I was talking with someone.
[00:36:01.810] Marc Mawhinney: They're like, oh, it's great.
[00:36:02.530] Marc Mawhinney: You can feed into AI.
[00:36:03.730] Marc Mawhinney: And I'm...
[00:36:04.130] Marc Mawhinney: And I said, I'm not gonna let it touch my book.
[00:36:06.850] Marc Mawhinney: AI will stay away.
[00:36:07.730] Marc Mawhinney: It's like a newborn baby.
[00:36:09.090] Marc Mawhinney: Stay the hell away from it.
[00:36:10.290] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:36:10.450] Marc Mawhinney: You're not gonna get near the baby with it.
[00:36:12.805] Marc Mawhinney: I don't want to have an AI slop book.
[00:36:15.925] Marc Mawhinney: I had someone reach out to me a few years ago who had a
[00:36:18.725] Marc Mawhinney: book writing process that used AI pretty early in the process compared
[00:36:22.965] Marc Mawhinney: to now for AI.
[00:36:24.085] Marc Mawhinney: And he said, Mark, I'd love to show you what I can do so
[00:36:26.690] Marc Mawhinney: you can at least have a look at it.
[00:36:28.370] Marc Mawhinney: And what he was doing is if he got access to my
[00:36:32.450] Marc Mawhinney: programs, content like that, it would write a book for you.
[00:36:35.490] Marc Mawhinney: Right?
[00:36:35.810] Marc Mawhinney: So here you go.
[00:36:37.250] Marc Mawhinney: Send me what you want.
[00:36:38.290] Marc Mawhinney: No promises, but if you wanna show me.
[00:36:41.235] Marc Mawhinney: I got the book quote back, and there's no way I would
[00:36:45.315] Marc Mawhinney: ever release that.
[00:36:46.595] Marc Mawhinney: For one, every...
[00:36:47.635] Marc Mawhinney: Almost every page had an acronym, so it'd be like, this is the MARC
[00:36:51.155] Marc Mawhinney: framework, m a r c, with these generic bullshit, or
[00:36:55.240] Marc Mawhinney: this is the REACH method, and this is that, and it just sounded awful.
[00:36:59.160] Marc Mawhinney: And I said to him, yeah.
[00:37:00.600] Marc Mawhinney: I...
[00:37:00.920] Marc Mawhinney: It's not for me.
[00:37:02.360] Dustin Serviss: What do you say...
[00:37:03.160] Dustin Serviss: And this...
[00:37:03.720] Dustin Serviss: I'm gonna solicit some, of your advice while we're on the air, and Lyssard
[00:37:08.120] Dustin Serviss: can see my own thoughts.
[00:37:10.085] Dustin Serviss: We talked about the alter ego effect and sort of putting a different face
[00:37:13.445] Dustin Serviss: on.
[00:37:14.645] Dustin Serviss: In my sort of pseudo past life, it was,
[00:37:18.645] Dustin Serviss: you know, you gotta be a certain way, finance space, look a certain
[00:37:22.965] Dustin Serviss: way, and you will have a certain outcome.
[00:37:25.710] Dustin Serviss: In the podcast space,
[00:37:28.350] Dustin Serviss: the whole purpose is being authentic.
[00:37:30.990] Dustin Serviss: And part of that...
[00:37:32.830] Dustin Serviss: But if you do more video, you do have to put on a face.
[00:37:36.990] Dustin Serviss: But how do you think you could unpack being authentic
[00:37:41.795] Dustin Serviss: while also putting an alter ego in...
[00:37:44.595] Dustin Serviss: And I know Todd Herman used to my sister's neighbor.
[00:37:46.915] Dustin Serviss: So it's a small world.
[00:37:48.035] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:37:48.275] Dustin Serviss: Very small.
[00:37:49.235] Dustin Serviss: You put the the Superman on, and it's...
[00:37:51.395] Dustin Serviss: You get into your mode to deliver your
[00:37:55.770] Dustin Serviss: best performance, let's say.
[00:37:57.610] Dustin Serviss: But but where is the line between true...
[00:38:00.090] Dustin Serviss: Just true raw authentic, not really thought out well,
[00:38:04.490] Dustin Serviss: and alter ego completely using AI to try and
[00:38:08.825] Dustin Serviss: create better
[00:38:09.625] Marc Mawhinney: I don't think alter ego means that you take the complete opposite
[00:38:13.945] Marc Mawhinney: of you.
[00:38:14.665] Marc Mawhinney: And Todd could speak better to this because he wrote the book on it.
[00:38:17.785] Marc Mawhinney: But I think what it means is you still incorporate some of your skills
[00:38:21.990] Marc Mawhinney: and traits and talents, but you're dialing it up.
[00:38:24.710] Marc Mawhinney: There's the advice for people who are on TV news or
[00:38:28.710] Marc Mawhinney: TV hosts or whatever that you dial it up to an eleven out of
[00:38:32.710] Marc Mawhinney: ten because TV will naturally takes it away, so you gotta almost push
[00:38:36.925] Marc Mawhinney: further.
[00:38:37.725] Marc Mawhinney: So I think that you wanna still keep some of yours, but just it's
[00:38:42.045] Marc Mawhinney: dialed up.
[00:38:43.165] Marc Mawhinney: Good example back, I think it was twenty sixteen, Tony Robbins
[00:38:47.485] Marc Mawhinney: released a new documentary on Netflix, I am not your guru.
[00:38:51.630] Marc Mawhinney: And, yeah, I remember watching it.
[00:38:54.030] Marc Mawhinney: I was looking forward to it.
[00:38:55.230] Marc Mawhinney: Every second word Tony used in that documentary was the f bomb.
[00:38:58.830] Marc Mawhinney: And by the way, I can have a potty mouth, so I'm not, like,
[00:39:01.470] Marc Mawhinney: clutching my pearls.
[00:39:02.350] Marc Mawhinney: And, oh my gosh.
[00:39:03.150] Marc Mawhinney: She said the f word.
[00:39:04.535] Marc Mawhinney: But it was like, f this, f that or whatever.
[00:39:07.015] Marc Mawhinney: And I'm like, okay.
[00:39:07.655] Marc Mawhinney: He's Tony Robbins.
[00:39:08.615] Marc Mawhinney: I guess he's earned that right or whatever.
[00:39:11.095] Marc Mawhinney: But the interesting thing, what I noticed in the few weeks after that documentary
[00:39:15.335] Marc Mawhinney: came out, a lot of coaches who I know started,
[00:39:19.400] Marc Mawhinney: who never before had used profanity in their content or anything
[00:39:24.040] Marc Mawhinney: were doing that.
[00:39:25.320] Marc Mawhinney: And I remember one...
[00:39:26.360] Marc Mawhinney: The most extreme example, one coach was suddenly putting posts up like, if you
[00:39:30.360] Marc Mawhinney: don't go for your affin' dreams, you're an affin' piece of shit.
[00:39:33.240] Marc Mawhinney: Get the affin' out of my life.
[00:39:35.025] Marc Mawhinney: And, yeah, these grandmotherly types would normally be baking cookies
[00:39:39.025] Marc Mawhinney: and like that or, like, f this, but...
[00:39:41.105] Marc Mawhinney: Because they're thinking Tony Robbins does it.
[00:39:43.665] Marc Mawhinney: So, hey, it works for him.
[00:39:45.425] Marc Mawhinney: And it was just so performative, and that was too much of an alter
[00:39:49.570] Marc Mawhinney: ego or mask or just...
[00:39:51.250] Marc Mawhinney: It was...
[00:39:51.810] Marc Mawhinney: Came across really fake and phony.
[00:39:54.210] Marc Mawhinney: So the advice I always give is if you use...
[00:39:58.290] Marc Mawhinney: If you curse like a sailor in your real life, like, personal life is
[00:40:01.730] Marc Mawhinney: like that, then do it with your content.
[00:40:04.395] Marc Mawhinney: Content.
[00:40:04.662] Marc Mawhinney: And if you chase away people, they probably weren't the right fit for you
[00:40:07.115] Marc Mawhinney: because if you curse during a coaching session or whatever, they're gonna think you're
[00:40:11.035] Marc Mawhinney: awful, you're Hitler, and it's not gonna work out.
[00:40:14.155] Marc Mawhinney: But if you talk like the fairy godmother in your personal life is don't
[00:40:18.075] Marc Mawhinney: suddenly speak like a biker at a angels rally or something
[00:40:22.170] Marc Mawhinney: like that.
[00:40:22.730] Marc Mawhinney: You gotta use it.
[00:40:23.770] Marc Mawhinney: So for me, I'm probably in the middle.
[00:40:25.770] Marc Mawhinney: Like, I've said in my emails as bullshit and crap and like
[00:40:29.770] Marc Mawhinney: that, but not dropping a whole bunch of f bombs either.
[00:40:33.385] Marc Mawhinney: I've had people on my email list who I know in real life who
[00:40:36.425] Marc Mawhinney: say, hey.
[00:40:36.745] Marc Mawhinney: Your email sound like you or whatever.
[00:40:38.825] Marc Mawhinney: I think it's common sense.
[00:40:39.945] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:40:40.105] Marc Mawhinney: I just write like I talk or whatever.
[00:40:42.665] Marc Mawhinney: I have had, someone reach out to me before who said, Mark, I wanted
[00:40:46.585] Marc Mawhinney: to...
[00:40:46.985] Marc Mawhinney: I've been on your list for a while.
[00:40:48.600] Marc Mawhinney: I noticed in your email yesterday that you said bullshit, I think
[00:40:52.680] Marc Mawhinney: it was, or bullcrap.
[00:40:54.920] Marc Mawhinney: She said, I'd really appreciate if you clean that up so we're on the
[00:40:58.360] Marc Mawhinney: same vibrational level or something like that.
[00:41:01.640] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:41:01.960] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:41:02.200] Marc Mawhinney: I said, look.
[00:41:02.760] Marc Mawhinney: I appreciate you being on my list.
[00:41:04.485] Marc Mawhinney: I'm just riding like a talk.
[00:41:06.165] Marc Mawhinney: If it's not for you, no hard feelings if you want...
[00:41:09.445] Marc Mawhinney: Wanna unsubscribe.
[00:41:11.365] Marc Mawhinney: So that's...
[00:41:12.245] Marc Mawhinney: I I feel like a lot of things can be nuanced.
[00:41:14.965] Marc Mawhinney: Like, for me, when it comes to content or AI, I mentioned I'm not
[00:41:19.340] Marc Mawhinney: pro anti either way.
[00:41:20.780] Marc Mawhinney: I'm kinda, like, in the middle in some ways.
[00:41:23.020] Marc Mawhinney: But when it comes to content, it sounds silly to say just be yourself
[00:41:26.780] Marc Mawhinney: because, yeah, who else would it be?
[00:41:28.940] Marc Mawhinney: But your alter ego should be a perfect example.
[00:41:31.420] Marc Mawhinney: Are...
[00:41:31.740] Marc Mawhinney: Did...
[00:41:31.980] Marc Mawhinney: Were you a fan of Breaking Bad or no?
[00:41:34.675] Dustin Serviss: No.
[00:41:34.915] Dustin Serviss: I wasn't, but I watched it.
[00:41:36.275] Marc Mawhinney: Oh, jeez.
[00:41:36.755] Marc Mawhinney: I'm gonna I'm gonna leave now.
[00:41:38.275] Marc Mawhinney: This is...
[00:41:39.795] Marc Mawhinney: I love Breaking Bad.
[00:41:41.075] Marc Mawhinney: I love Better Call Sauls, but Walter Wright is a...
[00:41:44.835] Marc Mawhinney: I say protagonist, anti hero, whatever.
[00:41:47.155] Marc Mawhinney: Main character of Breaking Bad, he...
[00:41:49.610] Marc Mawhinney: When he became Heisenberg, who was a drug lord of everything,
[00:41:54.170] Marc Mawhinney: he, I think, had some traits that he had when he was
[00:41:58.250] Marc Mawhinney: a fifty year old, meek, mild high school science teacher.
[00:42:02.855] Marc Mawhinney: Just they were ramped up and he was letting them out with Heisenberg, but
[00:42:06.455] Marc Mawhinney: I still think that it was a real person when he was...
[00:42:10.295] Marc Mawhinney: Became a drug lord in New Mexico and feared and everything else.
[00:42:14.295] Marc Mawhinney: He had that buried inside him, and him getting a cancer diagnosis
[00:42:19.040] Marc Mawhinney: at terminal where his life is gonna be over pretty soon, he said, screw
[00:42:23.120] Marc Mawhinney: it.
[00:42:23.360] Marc Mawhinney: I'm going to make as much money to pay for my family in the
[00:42:27.200] Marc Mawhinney: future as possible with it.
[00:42:28.965] Marc Mawhinney: So he didn't become something totally different.
[00:42:31.125] Marc Mawhinney: Just he...
[00:42:32.005] Marc Mawhinney: His alter ego, Heisenberg, revealed his true self, but
[00:42:36.165] Marc Mawhinney: it was ratcheted up, I think, with it.
[00:42:39.045] Marc Mawhinney: That's the same way I view the alter ego.
[00:42:42.270] Dustin Serviss: Do you see yourself in Heisenberg or the younger Mark?
[00:42:45.710] Dustin Serviss: Would it...
[00:42:46.030] Dustin Serviss: Was there a
[00:42:46.590] Marc Mawhinney: Oh, yeah.
[00:42:46.790] Marc Mawhinney: I wanna be a a drug lord here.
[00:42:48.830] Marc Mawhinney: I'm gonna start selling a Christmas No.
[00:42:50.830] Dustin Serviss: I didn't mean that.
[00:42:51.550] Dustin Serviss: I meant the money side where it was like, I just wanna make as
[00:42:54.350] Dustin Serviss: much.
[00:42:54.915] Dustin Serviss: And has that changed over the years?
[00:42:56.675] Marc Mawhinney: It changes as you get older.
[00:42:58.355] Marc Mawhinney: We're joking around earlier because the last time we talked, I was on the
[00:43:01.395] Marc Mawhinney: show in twenty twenty three, so I had less gray hair at the time.
[00:43:05.235] Marc Mawhinney: But back in the day when I was in my twenties, I was like,
[00:43:08.350] Marc Mawhinney: yeah.
[00:43:08.510] Marc Mawhinney: It was all money, go, whatever.
[00:43:11.310] Marc Mawhinney: And I didn't have my son till I was almost thirty.
[00:43:14.350] Marc Mawhinney: I was a few days away from turning thirty.
[00:43:16.430] Marc Mawhinney: And and you think of things different.
[00:43:18.270] Marc Mawhinney: You have children, so you know how it is.
[00:43:20.510] Marc Mawhinney: Before I had kids, I never understood the concept of willing
[00:43:24.835] Marc Mawhinney: to take a bullet for someone.
[00:43:26.435] Marc Mawhinney: Yes.
[00:43:26.675] Marc Mawhinney: There's your parents.
[00:43:27.795] Marc Mawhinney: It's like that.
[00:43:28.515] Marc Mawhinney: But you just don't understand because that person's not in your life yet.
[00:43:32.515] Marc Mawhinney: And, yeah, it changed.
[00:43:34.115] Marc Mawhinney: Once I became a father, I think it changed for sure.
[00:43:37.250] Marc Mawhinney: But now at this age, I look much more, hey.
[00:43:39.810] Marc Mawhinney: I wanna make a lot of money, but I also wanna enjoy what I'm
[00:43:42.770] Marc Mawhinney: doing.
[00:43:43.250] Marc Mawhinney: So in the past, I would have shoveled shit to make millions of dollars
[00:43:47.010] Marc Mawhinney: a year, but now I'm not gonna shovel shit too many...
[00:43:50.335] Marc Mawhinney: That much money.
[00:43:51.215] Marc Mawhinney: You gotta also...
[00:43:52.255] Marc Mawhinney: And, also, I think there's something as you get older, you start thinking of
[00:43:55.535] Marc Mawhinney: legacy, wanting to make a dent in the universe, and so on that
[00:43:59.615] Marc Mawhinney: you don't think of when you're in your twenties.
[00:44:01.615] Marc Mawhinney: You think you're...
[00:44:02.810] Marc Mawhinney: You don't...
[00:44:03.210] Marc Mawhinney: Just don't think the same way.
[00:44:04.810] Marc Mawhinney: So, yeah, I've definitely changed.
[00:44:07.690] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:44:08.010] Dustin Serviss: I don't...
[00:44:08.490] Dustin Serviss: I, for any listener who has kids,
[00:44:11.770] Dustin Serviss: yeah, I was explaining to somebody else in the day of, dirt biking with
[00:44:15.290] Dustin Serviss: our children, which does...
[00:44:16.565] Dustin Serviss: It doesn't cost that much money if you buy old gear and you just
[00:44:19.365] Dustin Serviss: sort of go at the odd time, little bit of gas.
[00:44:21.285] Dustin Serviss: But compared to big grand trip to just literally being on
[00:44:25.285] Dustin Serviss: the trail and my son's not thinking they can make it up this hill
[00:44:30.050] Dustin Serviss: And having a two minute visit with them and standing down there, you know,
[00:44:33.410] Dustin Serviss: bikes are idling, and I'm saying, you just put it in first, put your
[00:44:36.770] Dustin Serviss: feet down, and just slowly go up there.
[00:44:39.330] Dustin Serviss: And so I went and I went to the top.
[00:44:42.345] Dustin Serviss: And this isn't a big hill, but it's a sand hill high enough that
[00:44:45.385] Dustin Serviss: they had to go for at least probably five or eight seconds wide open
[00:44:49.065] Dustin Serviss: to get up there.
[00:44:49.705] Dustin Serviss: And so they did.
[00:44:51.705] Dustin Serviss: And when they came up there, the grins on their face and the fact
[00:44:55.340] Dustin Serviss: that they had just realized they could do something when we've driven
[00:44:59.340] Dustin Serviss: by this hill so many times, they thought I'm never gonna go up there.
[00:45:02.620] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:45:03.180] Dustin Serviss: And that moment, as a parent, I don't know,
[00:45:07.580] Dustin Serviss: like, how to even describe that.
[00:45:09.475] Dustin Serviss: If you don't have children and you're going through, like, all all this materialistic,
[00:45:14.115] Dustin Serviss: that's the next level.
[00:45:15.555] Dustin Serviss: But as a parent, there is something there that is extreme.
[00:45:18.835] Marc Mawhinney: So when I was early in my real estate sales career, I was twenty
[00:45:22.835] Marc Mawhinney: one ish, twenty two, And an agent in my office
[00:45:27.420] Marc Mawhinney: was gonna be a father.
[00:45:29.100] Marc Mawhinney: And I'd said to him at the time...
[00:45:30.940] Marc Mawhinney: Because at that time, I was just work hundred hours a week, but my
[00:45:34.460] Marc Mawhinney: one, treat or respite from work was late at night.
[00:45:38.540] Marc Mawhinney: I'd play, like, PlayStation for an hour just to turn the business brain off.
[00:45:42.315] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:45:42.875] Marc Mawhinney: And I said to him, I said, at the time, this is, again, twenty
[00:45:45.995] Marc Mawhinney: one years old.
[00:45:46.715] Marc Mawhinney: I said, oh, man.
[00:45:47.595] Marc Mawhinney: I said, Harry, you have time to play PlayStation after you're done working?
[00:45:51.755] Marc Mawhinney: And he said something I always remember.
[00:45:53.595] Marc Mawhinney: He said, your PlayStation is never gonna say it loves you.
[00:45:56.650] Marc Mawhinney: And I'm like Okay.
[00:45:57.610] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:45:57.930] Marc Mawhinney: That...
[00:45:58.090] Marc Mawhinney: And it's not gonna wipe your ass too when you're eighty years old.
[00:46:01.370] Marc Mawhinney: He didn't say that, but I'm adding that part.
[00:46:03.690] Marc Mawhinney: I thought, wow.
[00:46:04.650] Marc Mawhinney: At the time, I kinda laughed about it.
[00:46:06.585] Marc Mawhinney: But looking back, I'm like, you know what?
[00:46:08.425] Marc Mawhinney: He makes a really good point.
[00:46:10.265] Marc Mawhinney: And people who don't have kids don't realize that.
[00:46:13.705] Marc Mawhinney: I can say with my son when I went through that business closure
[00:46:18.025] Marc Mawhinney: years after the PlayStation comment is that he kept me
[00:46:22.170] Marc Mawhinney: alive.
[00:46:22.650] Marc Mawhinney: Right?
[00:46:22.970] Marc Mawhinney: Because, you go through dark thoughts when you go through this
[00:46:26.970] Marc Mawhinney: really public massive business closure.
[00:46:29.850] Marc Mawhinney: But he, at the time, my son was born a year and a...
[00:46:33.130] Marc Mawhinney: Not even a year and a half.
[00:46:34.250] Marc Mawhinney: It might have been, like, fourteen months before everything happened.
[00:46:37.465] Marc Mawhinney: So he was still really little, and I didn't have that option
[00:46:41.865] Marc Mawhinney: of just laying in bed with the cover...
[00:46:44.425] Marc Mawhinney: Covering my head all day long and just...
[00:46:47.625] Marc Mawhinney: You you have to put food on the table or whatever.
[00:46:49.945] Marc Mawhinney: So that's a plus for entrepreneurs besides everything else is it's
[00:46:54.130] Marc Mawhinney: the best motivation you can get is to have a kid.
[00:46:57.090] Marc Mawhinney: There's nothing that beats at a child or children.
[00:47:01.170] Marc Mawhinney: And that's what makes me sad nowadays.
[00:47:03.330] Marc Mawhinney: I see people saying, oh, I wouldn't wanna bring a kid into this
[00:47:07.385] Marc Mawhinney: world with climate change or with wealth inequality.
[00:47:11.145] Marc Mawhinney: And
[00:47:11.705] Dustin Serviss: That's a whole another podcast.
[00:47:13.305] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:47:13.545] Marc Mawhinney: I won't get into abortion.
[00:47:14.985] Marc Mawhinney: It's like that, but it's very on.
[00:47:17.785] Marc Mawhinney: It's like that, and it misses the whole magic ends of having
[00:47:22.270] Marc Mawhinney: kids and how special that is.
[00:47:24.270] Marc Mawhinney: So it's sad, but it's where we're at here in twenty twenty
[00:47:28.430] Marc Mawhinney: six, twenty twenty seven.
[00:47:30.190] Marc Mawhinney: But for entrepreneurs, kids are the best motivation you can have.
[00:47:34.865] Dustin Serviss: I love it.
[00:47:35.505] Dustin Serviss: As Tim Ferris says, we're gonna land the plane.
[00:47:38.465] Dustin Serviss: Where can people find you in your social or where's...
[00:47:42.625] Dustin Serviss: Where are you most active?
[00:47:44.145] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:47:45.345] Marc Mawhinney: Main hub, natural born coaches dot com.
[00:47:48.625] Marc Mawhinney: We are talking about some passion project.
[00:47:50.950] Marc Mawhinney: I don't know if that's gonna be in here or not, but stay tuned.
[00:47:53.750] Marc Mawhinney: I'm working on something which ties into what we were talking about today
[00:47:57.750] Marc Mawhinney: with entrepreneurs looking to make comebacks in business and life.
[00:48:02.095] Marc Mawhinney: With it...
[00:48:02.415] Marc Mawhinney: But natural born coaches dot com, you can also see the Coaching Jungle Facebook
[00:48:06.255] Marc Mawhinney: group, dot coaching jungle dot com.
[00:48:08.575] Marc Mawhinney: There's over thirty thousand, coaches or people interested
[00:48:12.575] Marc Mawhinney: in coaching in there as well.
[00:48:14.916] Dustin Serviss: Awesome, Mark.
[00:48:15.476] Dustin Serviss: I love it, and I can't wait.
[00:48:16.596] Dustin Serviss: Let's not take three years for the, part three.
[00:48:18.916] Marc Mawhinney: We'll see you in twenty twenty nine, twenty three.
[00:48:20.836] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:48:21.876] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:48:21.956] Marc Mawhinney: Thank you.
[00:48:22.316] Dustin Serviss: When we're when we're a little older.
[00:48:23.796] Marc Mawhinney: Yeah.
[00:48:24.196] Dustin Serviss: Jia Tzu.