I Got Everything I Wanted. Now What? | Stories of Reinvention After Success (#212) — Transcript
THE PICTURE OF WEALTH · EPISODE 212
What happens when the goal you worked toward stops telling you what to do next? Dustin Serviss revisits six conversations with Denise Logan, Meryl Johnston, Lucia Knight, Marc Proulx, Adam Trainer and Dr. Rex Hawthorne. Their stories connect business exits, founder identity, career reinvention and family time—and the choices that make success worth living.
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Chapters
[00:00:00] Six stories about the moment after success
[00:00:38] Denise Logan: the $85-million deal and the life behind the price
[00:04:11] Meryl Johnston: reaching a North Star and choosing what comes next
[00:07:27] Lucia Knight: redefining success at midlife
[00:11:31] Marc Proulx: unlearning worst-case thinking during a career transition
[00:14:53] Adam Trainer: selling Grizzly Lodge and rebuilding identity
[00:19:00] Dr. Rex Hawthorne: the kindergarten wake-up call
Guests & original conversations
This compilation draws on six earlier TPOW conversations. Read each complete original transcript below.
Related episodes
This transcript was generated from the episode audio. Speaker labels follow the featured conversations; the short transition voice is labeled Narrator. An isolated word at 00:02:17 could not be confidently attributed. The transcript may contain transcription or speaker-attribution errors; refer to the recording for exact wording.
Transcript
[00:00:00] Dustin Serviss: If you're somebody who likes the highlights... So my kids watch, Jays in thirty, which is thirty minutes of highlights of the Blue Jays. Obviously, over because the World Series is over now. But this is a highlight reel. Six guests share on a common theme, short snippets of each guest sharing on transition and moments where... Like, real moments, real human moments where they open up a bit about where they found something about themself and how they use that insight to make a change in their life. First
[00:00:37] Narrator: up is Denise Logan.
[00:00:38] Denise Logan: Listeners, don't get hung up about the size of the deal or the type of industry. The same emotional arc is happening no matter those things. But this happened to be an eighty five million dollar manufacturing company. And eight weeks before the closing, the seller suddenly announced that he would not take a penny less than nine times EBITDA for his business. And that would be great, except that his deal was at six point two times EBITDA. So we had a little bit of a delta there, and he stopped talking to everyone. So the investment banker called me and said, I think my seller went crazy.
[00:01:18] Denise Logan: I said, yeah. It sounds like it. Let's see if we can figure out what scared him and what hidey hole he went into. So his original plan was to sell the business, buy a sailboat, and sail around the globe. But you can get a pretty good boat for eighty five million bucks. So this is probably not actually about money. Right? And then I discover that two weeks before he asked for this financial unicorn, His wife had said, I'm not doing that. I do not wanna be stuck on a boat with you far away from my grandkids. Heck, no.
[00:01:58] Denise Logan: We're not doing that. Can we agree, Dustin, he is not coming back to tell the deal team that the deal is off because his wife won't let him do what he wants to do? So once I sorted out what was happening, I did some individual work with each of them, and I brought them back together with a solution where
[00:02:17] Unidentified speaker: he
[00:02:17] Denise Logan: would buy the sailboat and sail. And every six weeks, she would take one grandchild, fly to where he was, and they would do two weeks on land building memories with the grandchild. Then she would fly home, and he would sail on. Boom. Our deal was back on track, closed on time at its original asking price because it was never about what it looked like it was about. And what I always say is if you have been married longer than five minutes, not to not to dismiss every jacked up idea that your spouse comes up with, because you would not be married anymore.
[00:02:57] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:02:57] Denise Logan: But all of a sudden, it got very real. The deal was gonna close, and he was gonna buy a sailboat. And she said, oh my gosh. What is about to happen here? And what that couple was dealing with is what is called relational grief. So if you think back to when you first met your beloved, right, you're all in love and, oh, this is so great. You have a dream about what your life will be like. And then maybe you have a baby, and and all of a sudden, the baby is in between you, and you hardly get a glimpse of each other. And then maybe you have another baby, and the children grow up and move away.
[00:03:37] Denise Logan: And one or both of the spouses go, who are you? I don't know you. I don't even know if I want to know you anymore. And often, one of those spouses will try to pull the business back in the way to avoid having to deal with the fact that we have grown apart or what we always said we would do when we reach that point is no longer what one of us wants to do.
[00:04:08] Narrator: Up next, Meryl Johnston.
[00:04:11] Meryl Johnston: And it took me about seven years to achieve that. So every day for seven years, I had the North Star. I was marching towards that, and I knew I was on the right track. And so then as things wound back, I was starting to explore different ideas, different business opportunities, dabble with investing. It was uncomfortable for me because I was in the experimentation phase again, and I knew that, yes, I wanted to do other things, but I didn't really know what. So I didn't have a clear North Star. What am I marching towards every day? So I didn't know. It felt like sometimes I was wasting time. I'm experimenting. I'm learning. A couple of years ago, I was dabbling in crypto and web three businesses. And so I was trying all these different things, which was fun, but it
[00:04:52] Meryl Johnston: also made me feel uncomfortable not having a clear goal. And
[00:04:55] Dustin Serviss: You've always had goals since twenty, and then all of a sudden you've reached some of them, and now you don't know what you really want. So was it scary or
[00:05:04] Meryl Johnston: uncomfortable. Describe it as uncomfortable because I kept wanting to commit to something, to rush into the next thing. I was ready to go again. I felt like I've got my energy back. I'm really ready to do the next thing. But that was one of my lessons as a more experienced business owner is that it's really about the right idea at the right time. And I knew don't just rush into anything. There's lots of opportunities out there, really try and take my time to find the next thing. So I'm probably still dabbling with different things. So I invested in a recruitment business that recruits accountants in the Philippines. So that's really fun. I was running a deal for the Australian part of our business to merge
[00:05:45] Meryl Johnston: our strategic partnership with Australian accounting firms. I've been working on that, doing some coaching for accounting firm owners. So I guess I'm still trying out different things, seeing how they go, I guess, still in that experimentation phase, but at least I've got a few clearer paths. I tried angel investing and then realized it wasn't for me.
[00:06:03] Dustin Serviss: So Why not?
[00:06:05] Meryl Johnston: Well, I think with anything, you wanna feel like you've got some kind of edge. And so when I did angel investing, which I typically didn't tech startups, I thought, okay. I'll carve out my niche by investing in tech startups that solve problems for accountants because I understand that particular niche pretty well. But then I realized, hang on. Angel investing, really, it's about... Or any kind of investing. It's about the price that you buy in at and then the kind of return that you're gonna get. And I really did not have experience at valuations for pre revenue companies. I realized it's not that interesting being an angel investor where you're not that involved. I actually like being a bit more involved in a business than getting just a report every month.
[00:06:46] Meryl Johnston: And I also realized if I was going into the business of angel investing, I probably needed to vet sixty deals a year, make ten investments a year and continue doing that. And yes, I'm an accountant, but I don't really like due diligence at vetting businesses. I liked thinking if it was a good problem to solve. So I made a couple of investments and I'd go and do customer calls and try and validate problem that they were solving and try and validate the market size. And that kind of, I guess, business thinking was fun, but realized I don't think I've got any special skill set in this space, and I don't enjoy it. So tried it. I'm gonna do something different.
[00:07:24] Narrator: Up next, Lucia Knight.
[00:07:27] Lucia Knight: But also there's a pondering moment. There's a moment around midlife when something happens and that something can be lots of things. So the trigger could be illness. It could be a big birthday. It could be your first child, your last child. It could be your children leaving home, but there's something that's happened in your life that has caused you to pause and that can happen at twenty, but it happens all the time at that midlife phase, doesn't it?
[00:07:55] Dustin Serviss: Lucia, what about if someone has got... At twenty, they envision, man, if I only had this much money or if I if I only made five hundred thousand a year Yeah. And all of a sudden they get to midlife and they're making that Yeah. And it's not as enjoyable as they dreamt at twenty. Would that be a catalyst?
[00:08:13] Lucia Knight: Totally. Totally. Because it's not... Because they were running at one goal, but that one goal is quite one dimensional unless you've put loads of thought into it. Yeah. And run really fast, get there. And the people I think we're talking about really successful, like loads of goals, like stretch goals, all of those things, but there are compromises that need to be made in order to fulfill that one primary goal. And at some point maybe that's, they've earned enough or they've done enough or, but mostly I see there's a questioning of what does success look like? I feel by other people's definition, I am successful.
[00:08:53] Lucia Knight: By my own definition, I'm successful. Like at twenty, the person you described at twenty, that would have been their dream. So they've lived it, but that doesn't mean it has to be their only dream. They're only... I just think if we stopped every five years and deliberately redefined, what does success look like for me? We never get to the stage where most of us do get to a point where we go, this isn't it, but I don't know what it is. Yeah.
[00:09:21] Dustin Serviss: What would you say to somebody who is experiencing that moment where they've got to that level, they are by all standards, and they're scared? They're now in a place where they're like, I don't know which way I wanna go. Yeah. And where would I even start to think? Because it's a confusing market. It's a... I'm reading right now, like, tons of goal based books, Ben Hardy, to Lewis Howe's old book, like, the masks of masculinity that, like, Yes. Really... They're two opposing things. So, again, I'm gonna share some personal stuff that's... I'm in the middle of the... One's pulling one way, one's going the other. One's about goals, one's about...
[00:10:01] Dustin Serviss: And not just money goals, different goals. But then the other one's saying you shouldn't act like that because you're wearing masks and you're authentic, and it's... This is what
[00:10:08] Lucia Knight: I know. Because you might be somebody different if you thought about it differently. I really get the sense that in my experience, it's a choice. So you have all the choices in the world, but you choose to be this sort of person. You choose to prioritize these sorts of things and these sorts of activities and these sorts of people, and that defines you. But to go back to your question, to answer it more clearly and more practically, in my research, so in the last twenty years, I've interviewed three thousand five hundred senior executives. That's a lot of people to understand what made them satisfied at work and what reduced their satisfaction, what brought them pain and what was the damp cloth on their joy at work.
[00:10:52] Lucia Knight: And I then interviewed a hundred people who had got to a midlife point, whatever that age was. For some, it was forty, for some it was fifty or anything in between. For one, it was sixty one and who just paused and did what we were talking about. Reevaluating what they wanted, what they needed, who they wanted to be, their identity, everything, and then designed work differently that allied them to be happier. Their version of happy, just like in your book. I've been reading your book over the last few weeks. Yeah. So it's all so personal. And so I learned a lot of lessons from those people who had left behind a twenty year successful career and did something different.
[00:11:29] Narrator: Up next, Marc Proulx.
[00:11:31] Dustin Serviss: Do you think... Obviously, you got an intro that I did previous to this, but you were in risk management in your job. And I think about this because of my career doing life insurance. You're doing risk management. You're planning mostly for downside and protecting people. So where... I'll say we are in mid forties, rebirth. Again, you can take a story where you wanna go, but are you trying to unpack some of that risk management fibers in your own life? And how are you doing that?
[00:12:12] Marc Proulx: That's a good question. I am trying to untrain myself, so to speak. And what I mean by that is my default is basically go to worst case scenario. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's what I've been trained to do for the last fifteen years. Right. And my background in risk management was around operational risk. So things that can go wrong with basically people process systems and external thing... External environment. So that's the definition of operational risk, which is pretty much anything. So I'm conditioned to always think like that, and
[00:12:52] Marc Proulx: I'm trying to uncondition myself to live more more freely from that perspective. But as I've... As you mentioned, I'm in a transition phase now. So I was on a, a severance package, which just recently finished. And now I'm thinking to myself, oh, shit. What do I do now? And I'm going through all of these worst case scenarios in terms of looking for the right thing for me. And, for example, looking... I saw a job. It was two... Or right before Christmas that I thought, wow. This is my skill set, and this is for a a great cause.
[00:13:34] Marc Proulx: It's for working in risk management and set... Setting up an enterprise risk management plan for a charity.
[00:13:42] Dustin Serviss: Nice.
[00:13:43] Marc Proulx: And that's the kind of that's the kind of gig I'm looking for now. Not necessarily it being about the money, but being about more purpose side. And I haven't heard anything from them. And now I'm thinking, oh, shoot. Am I gonna end up with nothing to fall back on? I've been in this weird phase of I kinda whipsaw from almost feeling overconfident to feeling not confident at all. And usually, I am very confident in most of the things I do. And when I set targets, I usually achieve them. And I'd usually set up tons of targets.
[00:14:23] Marc Proulx: I don't achieve all of them. But even the ones that I achieved, I'm still being productive more than most people. But, yeah, it's a weird transition. It's the honeymoon phase is now done. And now it's getting real. Now the fact that... Especially with my kids going into post secondary and huge astronomical costs coming my way, It's getting real now, and I need to figure it out.
[00:14:50] Narrator: Yep. Next, Adam Trainer.
[00:14:53] Dustin Serviss: What was that thought of... I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but what was the thought of envisioning yourself on the other end of the transaction that helped push you over the fence.
[00:15:05] Adam Trainer: Yeah. Yeah. I think my my approach was, although I graduated the business to being fairly independent operationally on a day to day basis, The weight of operating and being responsible for that business, I was certainly starting to feel more and more primarily having a young family at home and it demanding a fair bit of my attention and time, especially throughout the winter months. So as my family grew and I... The years slipped by for me at Grizzly, I just started to feel like I need to look at this little differently. And if that means selling to free me up for, especially
[00:15:47] Adam Trainer: my young kids, it just became over over those couple years, I was kind of mentioning that I became comfortable with this idea of going, on the other side, I'm gonna have more time. I'll have some time to reassess what my life looks like financially and my time commitments. And my primary goal was to be at home more rather than traveling back and forth and back and forth.
[00:16:10] Dustin Serviss: What about the identity piece? Not to get all woo woo on you, but was there a sense of... I remember when we first met, I was a guest at the lodge. Oh, man. Badass Adam, Sledder, backcountry owner. That's who I... That's all I knew. I know you a little more now, but at the time, that's what I envisioned as your identity. So what... How did you digest that?
[00:16:32] Adam Trainer: I think that's honestly still in process. I don't think you can necessarily anticipate as a business owner when you sell what exactly it meant to you until the day of when the transaction's done and the following weeks, months, and perhaps years ahead. I certainly as went... Going to make the public announcement at the lodge to some guests that were there and the statements I made. It certainly hit me a lot harder than I thought it would. Yeah. And I'm... Now this is... Oh, February first would have been the official day we... The deal was done. We're some months away here.
[00:17:12] Adam Trainer: And, yeah, I'm just starting to unpack who am I now. I know who I am. I'm pretty confident, but there's no doubt the lodge took a big piece of me or I gave it. So I think that's still yet to be determined over some time here on reassessing. Do I want my identity to be going forward here for sure?
[00:17:34] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. I can definitely appreciate that and envision that this is just another challenge. This is like you've done really hard things, and you proved it at the launch.
[00:17:47] Adam Trainer: Yeah.
[00:17:47] Dustin Serviss: That looking back two years, three years, five years from now, you're like, oh, that was another thing I had to overcome even though it feels like this is a never... I I can never come back from this.
[00:17:56] Adam Trainer: Yeah. On that note, I was just thinking for Grizzly to be as successful as it has been, there's no doubt I had to become... I had to live it, breathe it, eat it, sleep it, everything. I remember, I think it was about twenty twelve, I went to a personal development seminar, and I came out of that just with a new motivation. And for whatever reason coming out of that, I realized I had to dive in a hundred percent into Grizzly. And it was already operating and doing okay, but it was those years following twenty twelve that really things started to explode and become popular. And I just put my heart and soul into it. So now on the backside of that, I'm going like, wow.
[00:18:37] Adam Trainer: I I certainly can, like, feel like it... There's a piece of me that's still a part of that, and yet that's a chapter that's closed now. We gotta start reenvisioning and dreaming again. Right? Because I know that whatever I put my hand to, I will succeed. At least that's what's in my mind for the future.
[00:18:57] Narrator: Up next, doctor Rex Hawthorne.
[00:19:00] Dr. Rex Hawthorne: But in looking back, you know, I learned or when I, you know, when I had a family, I kinda thought, you know, I would like to try to be around for my kids maybe a little bit more than my dad was. And I'd like to say that I learned from my dad right away, and I was able to apply that that that that knowledge, if you will, and be around for my kids right off the bat, but I wasn't. I graduated, I think, started practicing in ninety five. I think I was twenty seven at the time. And, you know, my daughter was born in in nineteen ninety eight. And, it was an early part of my career and I was working, you know, I graduated six days a week. And, you know, I think when my daughter was born, I was five days
[00:19:43] Dr. Rex Hawthorne: a week. And, I mean, I remember going up to the hospital and picking up my my wife at the time and daughter and bringing them back home, getting them settled, and then heading back to the office. And, and that's just what I what I did. And somewhere along the line, and I I I can't remember this patient's name even if I could. I suppose I couldn't share, but I remember chatting with with, with, you know, a patient who at the time was probably in his sixties or so, and and and he knew I worked I worked hard and was working a lot. He knew I had a young family, and he said, you know, Rex, he said, when you look back on your life, you know, you're you're never gonna, you know, wish that you had worked more, wish that you had
[00:20:26] Dr. Rex Hawthorne: spent less time with your family and more time at the office. He said the opposite is true. You will look back and you may regret the time that you didn't spend with your family. And, I'd like to say that I took notice of that right away and, you know, made some changes, but I didn't. And really the revelation for me came or really kinda hit me when my my daughter went to kindergarten. You know, I remember taking her to kindergarten for her first day of school and thinking, oh, holy shit. Am I am I allowed to say that?
[00:20:57] Dustin Serviss: Oh, yes.
[00:20:57] Dr. Rex Hawthorne: That's what I thought. Holy shit. Like, she's a she's a she's a kindergarten now, and I had just an opportunity to maybe be around for her a bit more when she was a toddler. And, it was at that point that I committed to make some changes. My son was, two years younger than my daughter. He was born in two thousand. And, at that point, I was working, I think, five days a week, and I dropped a day. And I started working four days a week. And maybe a year later, I went to three and a half days a week. And, so I could have some time off, you know, just the Saturdays and Sundays, but, you know, Fridays and then, you know, every second
[00:21:37] Dr. Rex Hawthorne: Thursday, I would take off. So I had time to spend with my my kids when they were younger. And, you know, my son and I, we would ski. Every Thursday, we'd go skiing or I I would drive into preschool and just stuff. We Yep. Just do things together. And, you know, in looking back, I have absolutely no regrets in doing so. Sure, I didn't pay off my house as quickly or pay off debt or do whatever. You know, there wasn't as much cash flow as it could have been. But I was in a fortunate enough position that there was enough cash flow to do what I needed to do to support the family and look after our our needs in that regard, and still spend time with my
[00:22:17] Dr. Rex Hawthorne: family. And, so, yeah, it was... It wasn't just an epiphany. I woke up one morning and made some changes or something that I... Or when I was a kid. I'm I'm simply put not that smart. But it was that patient. And then when my daughter, you know, entering kindergarten, that's when it kinda really, you know, it's a bit of a wake up call, I guess.