The Business Exit Nobody Prepares You For | Denise Logan (#201)
Updated: Oct 26
THE PICTURE OF WEALTH · EPISODE 201
A business sale changes more than ownership. Denise Logan, author of The Seller’s Journey, joins Dustin Serviss to discuss the emotional transition behind an exit, how identity can complicate a deal, and preparing a life beyond the business.
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This transcript was generated from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. It may contain transcription or speaker-attribution errors. Refer to the recording for exact wording.
In this episode
The last child leaving home. Denise Logan, author of The Seller's Journey, says selling is the largest emotional transition in an owner's adult professional life, and compares it to an empty nest.
A both-and, not an either-or. Wanting to sell and missing the business can be true together; Denise describes her own "was that what I wanted?" moment after exiting, and how owners feel ashamed to say it.
What work gives you besides money. She lists structure, a place to go, friendship, the thrill of the chase, being the keeper of wisdom and power, and says "golf, travel and grandkids" is not an exit plan.
Who sits at the table. Depending on size, a business broker, M&A adviser or investment banker, plus an M&A attorney, a tax or estate attorney, a CPA experienced in sales and the financial adviser; Denise adds the emotional guide.
The nine-times-EBITDA story. In a deal she tells about an $85 million manufacturer, the seller suddenly demanded nine times EBITDA against a deal at 6.2; the real issue was his wife's objection to his sailing plan, and the deal closed on time at the original price.
Begin with the end in mind. Owners keep saying "three to five years", she notes, most don't get to choose when they leave, and sales forced by illness, death or divorce go for substantially less.
Chapters
[00:00:59] What is The Seller's Journey about?
[00:02:38] Why is the business the last child leaving home?
[00:04:50] Why can owners feel shame after getting what they wanted?
[00:09:59] What does work give you other than money and financial security?
[00:11:46] Which needs does work meet that a sale leaves empty?
[00:14:46] Why is "golf, travel and grandkids" not an exit plan?
[00:17:49] What is a deal team, and who sits on it?
[00:20:40] When does an emotional guide come into a sale?
[00:23:32] Why did Denise leave her law practice and buy a motor home?
[00:26:14] Why begin with the end in mind?
[00:27:02] Why do owners always say they will exit in three to five years?
[00:30:12] What happens when a seller suddenly demands nine times EBITDA?
[00:32:31] What is relational grief?
[00:34:23] What are Denise's two closing reminders?
Guest & resources
Related episodes
Transcript
[00:00:00] Dustin Serviss: Denise, thanks a lot for joining us on the Picture of Wealth or TPOW Labs as we've recently called it. But we are talking about business succession, exits. People say many different... There's many different ways to say sell your business. But I am excited to have you on the show to share a little bit about your insight, experience, and what you've written about in the seller's journey because near and dear to me, and it's a big problem for a lot of business owners, which is getting their perception or their emotions in check to actually do one of the biggest actions in their life. Thanks a lot for joining us on the show.
[00:00:43] Denise Logan: Oh, thanks for inviting me. It's nice to be with you, Dustin.
[00:00:46] Dustin Serviss: So, Denise, you have a book called The Seller's Journey, but give us a Coles Notes of what's happening in this book and why our listenership of business owners is interested in the topic.
[00:00:59] Denise Logan: The seller's journey is written as a business fable. It's the story of an owner one year after he exits his business. He goes on a trip across Glacier National Park with his banker, his lawyer, his financial adviser, and the buyer who bought his company. It is written as a tale. As they cross the glacier, they are relating the physical obstacles they're facing to the emotional obstacles that the owner faced in letting go of his business. So often, the professionals who are involved in helping an owner sell their business are focused on the transaction, the economics of it, the structural parts of the transaction.
[00:01:43] Denise Logan: There is a transition happening for that business owner. And in no other part of our life do we go through transition seemingly alone. And for the business owner, they often feel like they are alone in this journey, that everyone is focused on the wealth, they're focused on the deal of selling. And for the business owner, this is the single largest emotional transition in their adult professional life.
[00:02:13] Dustin Serviss: But is there... In all the speaking you've done and and meeting different business owners, is there one catalyst that seems to come up that actually moves the knee... Like, let's say moves the needle, but moves somebody over the fence of actually, like, committing to mentally, I'm gonna actually take action and go through the process of getting engaged.
[00:02:38] Denise Logan: I think there's often a single catalyst, but it is different for each owner. So if we think about when the last child leaves home, we have a name for that. Right? It's empty nest. We know what a couple is going through when that child leaves home. For the business owner, the business is the last child leaving home. We often hear in the industry that the owner treats it like it's their baby. Heck yeah. They do. It makes total sense to me that they treat it like it's their baby. And for many couples, when... Whether they're both involved in the business or not, this change that is about to happen, I think, is very comparable to what happens
[00:03:23] Denise Logan: when the last child leaves home.
[00:03:25] Dustin Serviss: I do. Yep.
[00:03:26] Denise Logan: How old are they?
[00:03:27] Dustin Serviss: Eight and ten.
[00:03:28] Denise Logan: I bet some of your listeners will be able to relate to where we are.
[00:03:32] Dustin Serviss: For sure.
[00:03:33] Denise Logan: When your child goes off to college and you drop them off and you're happy that they're headed on, but you come home that night and you go to set the dinner table and you have five plates when you now only need four. Oh, there's an emotional moment that happens and a little bit of embarrassment. Oh, yeah. I I knew that child was not going to be here. And no one shames that person for that moment. It's a completely normal and understandable experience. But for our business owners, as they have a related experience... For example, they might find themselves... They sold the company, and they're headed somewhere, and they wake...
[00:04:17] Denise Logan: It's almost as if they wake up, and they are sitting in the parking lot of their business that they no longer own. And they feel shame and embarrassment in that moment, But it's perfectly normal.
[00:04:29] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. I do have one... I'd like you to expand if the story doesn't uncover the shame and embarrassment of... I think you're talking about where that comes from, whether it's the identity of chest up, I own this company, this is who I am, or if you're going down a different vein of where that shame and embarrassment comes from.
[00:04:50] Denise Logan: So I exited my own business. And in the wake of exiting my business, I remember sitting on the patio super thrilled. I was having a glass of iced tea and reading a magazine and thinking, woo hoo. I got what I wanted. Oh, no. I think I got what I wanted. Oh, no. I might have gotten what I wanted. Was that what I wanted? And that experience of feeling uncertainty even after I exited my business and it was what I wanted. The people around me could not quite understand what that was. And they would say things like, but I thought you wanted to sell. A lot of owners feel that same experience where they do want to sell, but then there is also, who
[00:05:42] Denise Logan: will I spend my day with? Who are my friends if they're not the people from my company at work? Since so many people are focused on the economics and the transaction of it, when these pieces of emotions start to emerge, an owner, if they don't have somewhere to process them, can feel ashamed that it's even coming up. And the people around us often don't understand that it's a both and. I wanted what I wanted, and I miss it. And that's very normal. I often use examples from other parts of our life. When our middle schooler, our eighth grader is moving on to high school, and they're gonna miss their coach. They realize I'm gonna miss them.
[00:06:34] Denise Logan: We don't say, put your big boy pants on and stop worrying about missing them. We understand that things are changing for them, and we comfort them. Or even, Dustin, have you ever moved house? Right? And so you're thrilled you have a new house to move to. But in the process of packing up the old house, you realize, oh, I can't take the tree that I planted when my daughter was born. And we start to wonder, should I be moving? Maybe this is a mistake. Maybe I shouldn't move. Or you move to the new house, and you don't know where the silverware goes. Or your favorite dry cleaner or Thai restaurant is just a little too far to keep going,
[00:07:21] Denise Logan: that is a normal process of breathing change.
[00:07:24] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. What I find is a lot of business owners who have not taken that action are very encouraging on, oh, wow. That must be amazing, and yet they don't understand what that person that just exited might be going through and the clumsiness of it, of just moving around. And I think you you mentioned a good fit of the... That's not grieving. I guess it is grieving and letting that process just happen and talk to people because there is no sort of yet in the marketplace. I know they're emerging whether it's a succession adviser or a a business exit adviser, that person. Because counselor, it's... I haven't had a trauma per se, but you haven't
[00:08:15] Dustin Serviss: had a change. So even at best, a counselor psychologist talking about business, talking about feelings, spouse can be good, but there's different dynamics there where the spouse possibly is processing that.
[00:08:29] Denise Logan: They absolutely are. Yeah. I just finished with a client who was selling a business in Denver, and that's the work that I do. Right? I come along as the emotional guide for the adviser and for the owner and their advisers. So this client was very close to the end of the sale of the business, and some crazy started churning up. And I said to the deal team, yeah. This is not from him. This is from home. At work, he is a bully. He is always involved in some kind of conflict. Frequently, there is litigation. And mama just realized the bully is gonna be home full time with her. And, unconsciously, she was starting to
[00:09:15] Denise Logan: churn up some distress that was rippling into the deal. So I did some individual work with her, but then I got him involved in a boxing program. And it was for multiple things. The things we talked about were the fact that it was for his physical fitness and for his social needs. But the truth is that he also had a bully need that was getting met at work, and getting a big sack of cash was not going to make that need go away. Justin, one of the things that I see is there are many needs that each of us are getting met at work, And we often focus strictly on the financial needs and the economic security that is getting met.
[00:09:59] Denise Logan: So a question that I ask every client and really almost any business owners that I meet is, what does work provide for you other than money and financial security? What does work provide for you other than money and financial security? And often what I hear back from them is, what else is there? But if we just think about it, what do you get from your work, Dustin, other than money and financial security? What's one thing that you get?
[00:10:30] Dustin Serviss: I have been at home for six years working, and my office is an hour and a half west, call it. And Yeah. So I go there one day a week, but I don't really get the water cooler. I don't really get the greeting. We're a small team, and I've now been renting an office for the last month in my hometown where I live now just to go somewhere. And the the smallest things of seeing somebody in the parking lot, I don't talk to these people, but the people who are in the office building, good morning, to putting your lunch in the same spot in the fridge. Yeah. But that energy and even hearing... They can hear it through the doors or whatever.
[00:11:07] Dustin Serviss: Someone else on a sales call or being a a great customer service call where they're just solving a problem, and you can hear them and they're... You can almost feel their brains working. That energy is on... I don't know how to describe that. And especially after being away from that for so long, I notice all the things about the nonmonetary, about being around an office. The staff that I've had, we've built things. They've afforded a mortgage payment. They've got their lives. My right hand guy, they proposed to his fiancee and now fiancee. And so those little things are... There's so much more to it than just the money.
[00:11:46] Denise Logan: You listed a whole variety of things. Let me put some some names to those. And there are things that I often hear from owners. So it's things like structure. Structure to our day, to our week, to our year. You putting your lunch in the same spot in the fridge, probably the route that you take to the office, that's creating structure. It's also a place to go. Right? If we think back to COVID, we couldn't wait to get out of the house. Guess what? Our spouses couldn't wait for us to get out of the house either. It's also things like friendship because, typically, our employees and our customers and even our competitors are our friends.
[00:12:30] Denise Logan: But it's also things like the thrill of the chase or the thrill of the kill if there's a sales related component to a business. And then we start to look at, I'll say, deeper things. Like, at work, we are the keeper of wisdom. We know everything about our business, and people come to us to ask us for our wisdom. I don't know about at home for you, but the people who live in my house do not think I am quite as wise as the people who see me in the outside world. And it's also things like power. Because at work, when I say I want something done, it generally happens. Again, the people who live in my house do not necessarily think they had
[00:13:14] Denise Logan: done simply because I said so. And just like the story that I told of the owner who was getting to bully, well, I don't think he would even articulate that as a need that was getting met. It was. And the thing that I see for many owners is that in this process of selling the business, all of the attention is focused on only two needs that are getting met, money and financial security. And the closer an owner gets to the end of the transaction, the more these other needs begin to churn up, but they don't have language for it. And it feels a little embarrassing to say to the deal team or to friends or to anyone else, hey.
[00:14:00] Denise Logan: I don't have any friends. Who am I gonna hang out with when I sell my company? I was involved in a sale in California, and the owner was thirty seven years old. And he was going to net sixteen million dollars on the other side of sale of his company. It's a pretty good chunk of change for that time in his life. And he actually said, who am I gonna hang out with? All my buddies have jobs. And the investment banker who was involved was... He was a low EQ person because he said, dude, you can buy friends. And for our owner then, he started to feel embarrassed about this need, but it's a very real need.
[00:14:46] Denise Logan: And when we do the work early on to identify these things that an owner will be missing or may miss, I say may miss. We help them land better on the other side of their sale. Because often what I see is they will sell their company. They will... You know, we'll hear about what their exit plan is. Golf, travel, and grandkids. That's not really a plan, friends. That's a short time. And they might do that for three or six months, and then a certain amount of a missing work comes in. But the truth is that they are not missing work. They are not missing their business. They're missing what used to meet these needs.
[00:15:31] Denise Logan: And we are unlikely as adults to find a single thing that meets all of those needs that work used to meet. And so I watch owners suddenly try to figure out how close to their noncompete can they come.
[00:15:47] Dustin Serviss: Mhmm.
[00:15:47] Denise Logan: And I start another business and get very close, And they think what they're missing is the company they sold, but what they're truly missing are friends and a sense of power and a place to go. So I think when we do that work early to help figure out what is... What are those things and how do we begin finding ways to get those needs met. If I had my way, I would have owners do that ten years before they sell their business. Because the more of those things that are getting met in other ways in your life, the less likely you are to be gripping onto your business and resisting the sale of it.
[00:16:32] Dustin Serviss: I think you you mentioned one thing that is... What you're talking about is mental preparation and exposure to certain facets. A lot of work that we did do is in the blue collar space. And so there's a lot of that. I'm just a dumb farmer. Meanwhile, they've built a forty million dollar steel business or whatever it is. And in that world, I do wanna push further a little bit on when you say deal team, when you say private banker, what can you give business owners as a little piece of exposure to what that might look like? And in my head, in what I've heard from clients, I don't want a bunch of suits coming around the business, asking my
[00:17:23] Dustin Serviss: vendors, asking my clients about a bunch of stuff about this business. My people will know that I'm selling. Oh my god. That would be so bad. The business will implode. I'll lose all my employees.
[00:17:34] Denise Logan: Yes. For sure.
[00:17:37] Dustin Serviss: We've put together that we're successful. Did not do that, and it was not as bad of a process. But help us understand what a deal team is and specifically private equity or investment banks, what those are.
[00:17:49] Denise Logan: So much of it differs by client. But what I would say is that, typically, there will be a professional like either a business broker or an investment banker. And their role is to be able to help, we'll say, market the business.
[00:18:05] Dustin Serviss: When you say investment banker just for smaller renters Yeah. You know, the Toronto's and the Vancouvers, these are very prevalent. But investment banker, is that like somebody that works at a bank, or is that just a term given to a firm or a person that does fill in the blank?
[00:18:23] Denise Logan: Yeah. So there is a spectrum, like in many things. I would say on the smaller side would be a business broker.
[00:18:31] Dustin Serviss: This is a bed and breakfast, a gas station, a car wash, a car wash.
[00:18:34] Denise Logan: They're often called Main Street businesses.
[00:18:36] Dustin Serviss: Okay.
[00:18:37] Denise Logan: And then you would have the middle of the road, which are often called m and a advisers, and m and a standing for merger and acquisition. So m and a advisers. And then on the high end, you might have an investment banker. And an investment banker is someone who is exclusively focused on the sale of very large businesses. So we have a spectrum, and it depends. Yeah. Often, the m and a advisers ride that float. Right? They're bigger main street businesses, but not very large businesses. They ride that range. So the role of that particular professional, whether... Whatever their title is, their role is to help prepare
[00:19:19] Denise Logan: all of the documents and help do analysis of who the likely buyers are and how to get the best value for the business. So we'll say that is one seat at the table. Another seat at the table would be a... An m and a attorney. So an attorney who has specific expertise in the buying and selling of businesses.
[00:19:45] Dustin Serviss: Canada, it's a lawyer. That's a state. Yes.
[00:19:48] Denise Logan: Attorney, lawyer.
[00:19:50] Dustin Serviss: Yep.
[00:19:50] Denise Logan: And this is the place where you don't want to use your brother-in-law who is, an attorney of a different kind. You want to make sure that you have an attorney who does only this. You might also involve either a tax attorney or a... An estate planning attorney because there are certain things that can help save taxes if you do that planning right. Then there likely will also be your accountant or your CPA. Again, we... Our preference is to have someone who has experience in the sale of businesses. Not just that they've done it once or twice, but someone who does this for their livelihood. That is, I would say, the bare minimum.
[00:20:40] Denise Logan: I would also want to have the financial adviser for this owner as part of the process because we can certainly... A financial adviser can make sure that we are planning well for it. And then in many transactions, I have my own weird little seat at the table because I am doing the emotional support of the seller to keep them from going crazy and accidentally killing their deal when they get scared, which is completely normal. And I often come in at different times. There is when we come in and when we should come in, and those are unrelated to each other. So when I come in very early, it's a very simple part of it.
[00:21:27] Denise Logan: Selling your business is a tumultuous process, and we want to make sure that there is someone focused on the emotional transition that you're undergoing. When I come in the middle because perhaps the deal has unraveled, the owner has gotten scared or angry, that's a more nuanced introduction because no one wants to feel like they were naughty and just got sent to the guidance counselor's office. That feels unpleasant. Or sometimes I come in later. They have already sold their business and are stressed. It is difficult to go through the process, and sometimes an owner needs to stay on and do a transition with the new owner.
[00:22:09] Denise Logan: And sometimes for an owner, when they have sold and the new owner decision making, but the old owner needs to help smooth things through, that can feel very friction y. Or sometimes I come in because they have already sold and they are struggling on the other side of selling their business. Some context might make sense. In my early life, I was a therapist, and I'm trained in two tracks. One is called work and financial disorders. So people who are addicted to work and money.
[00:22:46] Dustin Serviss: Good one.
[00:22:47] Denise Logan: And the other track that I'm trained in is called thanatology, which is the study of death and dying. And for many of our owners, as they are getting close to the end of their business or the sale of their business, it feels like a death. It is an ending. And in our cultures, we don't do a very good job of endings. And so for many owners, they are cooking along, headed toward the exit, and all of a sudden, all of this existential mortality starts coming up. And they will often turn right around and move back toward their work or financial addiction. So I'm often helping to smooth that and to make sense of what is
[00:23:32] Denise Logan: coming up in the process for them. I... After I was a therapist, I became an attorney. So I practiced law for fifteen years in Washington, DC, and, PS, I'm an original Canadian. I grew up in Ontario, but ended up coming to the US for... And have been here for most of my adult life. So I built a law practice in Washington DC. And when we reached fifty lawyers and three hundred support staff, I exited my practice, got rid of my house, and bought a motor home. I thought I would travel for six months to clear my head, and it turned into almost five years where I traveled all over North and Central America on my own in this motor home.
[00:24:20] Denise Logan: When I came off the road, I joined a friend's business who was preparing it for sale. Over the next ten years, we tried to sell that business three times. And each time, he got right to the door and then pulled out because he couldn't see what life looked like on the other side. So after ten years of that, I left and did a research study about why business owners get stuck. And for the last seventeen years, I've been coming alongside owners and their advisers to navigate this emotional arc so that we land safely on the other side of really the most precarious part of our business, the exit.
[00:25:03] Dustin Serviss: What would you say... So that that particular individual in the world, there is... I can't remember the perfect dye... Venn diagram I've seen, but it's like, in your world... In a person's world and as applicable to a business owner, you have three bubbles, and it's like you, your business, and the market. And it's like, when is the optimal time to sell? And it's like, the perfect time would be my business is ready. I've got all the systems in place. I am emotionally and age appropriate of what I think I should sell, and the market is as high as I can get for the multiple. But in fact, that's not...
[00:25:45] Dustin Serviss: That that scenario is likely not ever lined up. So for that person that's gets to the end versus that Venn diagram I just described, how could you help said business owner fast track their understanding of their mind if they're in an opportune position where the market or their business is on a trend or it's running really good? Because also it's so profitable. Why would I sell? But unpack that comment.
[00:26:14] Denise Logan: So we should always be... Or I'll steal a line from Stephen Covey. We should begin with the end in mind, and most business owners don't do that. We don't start thinking, how will I exit? But I think we should because the truth is every one of us will leave our business at some point, voluntarily or involuntarily. And if we begin early to think about what would be an optimum way for me to exit my company, how will I prepare my business to be without me? How will I prepare myself to be without my business? That allows us to take advantage of the market in better ways than simply waiting until an offer is in front of you
[00:27:02] Denise Logan: or worse that something has happened that means you must sell. There's an interesting thing that happens. Many owners, if you ask them, when do you think you'll exit your company? They almost always say three to five years. And there are some curious psychology behind what happens and why they say three to five years. Three years feels close enough that I'm not actually ignoring this process, and five years feels far enough out that I might be able to figure out this stuff that I don't understand that is leaving me stuck. And what we will see is a rotating three to five years. So every year, if you ask them, it continues to be three to five
[00:27:47] Denise Logan: years, three to five years. And pretty soon, you've gone fifteen years and not there. One of the hard parts about owning any business is that you're often very busy running the business. We've heard the phrase working in your business or working on your business. And I encourage owners to do this work of preparing for your exit long before you are there. But as I said, it's preparing your business to be without you and preparing you to be without your business. And that... Those are both different parts of the process. When an owner tells me the age or the dollar number that they need to reach before they exit, I remind them that
[00:28:33] Denise Logan: a majority of owners do not actually get to choose when they leave. That's right. That comes from somewhere else. It could be that your spouse develops a serious illness and you become a caretaker. That was not your choice. You didn't have that opportunity. Or an offer comes in from a a strategic acquirer who would like to buy your business. If you have done this preparation work in advance, you can make a better decision. And most businesses that sell because there is an exterior event, owner dies, illness, divorce, some other aspect, those businesses sell for substantially less.
[00:29:23] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:29:23] Denise Logan: I spoke at a retreat not long ago, and I did some work with... It was husbands and wives. They didn't all own the business together, but it was all couples in the room. And I did some work with one couple who was willing to come to the front of the room. And he said, I'm never leaving my business. I'm gonna die at my desk because it's the place I feel most alive. And my heart fell into my stomach. His wife was sitting right there when he said the place he felt most alive was at work. And I thought about how sad it is that at some point, they lost touch with what they thought their life would be like. Don't get...
[00:30:12] Denise Logan: Listeners don't get hung up about the size of the deal or the type of industry. The same emotional arc is happening no matter those things. But this happened to be an eighty five million dollar manufacturing company. And eight weeks before the closing, the seller suddenly announced that he would not take a penny less than nine times EBITDA for his business. And that would be great, except that his deal was at six point two times EBITDA. So we had a little bit of a delta there, and he stopped talking to everyone. So the investment banker called me and said, I think my seller went crazy. I said, yeah. It sounds like it.
[00:30:53] Denise Logan: Let's see if we can figure out what scared him and what hidey hole he went into. So his original plan was to sell the business, buy a sailboat, and sail around the globe. But you can get a pretty good boat for eighty five million bucks. So this is probably not actually about money. Right? And then I discover that two weeks before he asked for this financial unicorn, His wife had said, I'm not doing that. I do not wanna be stuck on a boat with you far away from my grandkids. Heck, no. We're not doing that. Can we agree, Dustin, he is not coming back to tell the deal team that the deal is off because his wife won't let him do what he
[00:31:41] Denise Logan: wants to do? So once I sorted out what was happening, I did some individual work with each of them, and I brought them back together with a solution where he would buy the sailboat and sail. And every six weeks, she would take one grandchild, fly to where he was, and they would do two weeks on land building memories with the grandchild. Then she would fly home, and he would sail on. Boom. Our deal was back on track, closed on time at its original asking price because it was never about what it looked like it was about. And what I always say is if you have been married longer than five minutes, not to not to dismiss every
[00:32:24] Denise Logan: jacked up idea that your spouse comes up with, because you would not be married anymore.
[00:32:30] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:32:31] Denise Logan: But all of a sudden, it got very real. The deal was gonna close, and he was gonna buy a sailboat. And she said, oh my gosh. What is about to happen here? And what that couple was dealing with is what is called relational grief. So if you think back to when you first met your beloved, right, you're all in love and, oh, this is so great. You have a dream about what your life will be like. And then maybe you have a baby, and and all of a sudden, the baby is in between you and you hardly get a glimpse of each other. And then maybe you have another baby, and the children grow up and move away. And one or both of the spouses go, who are you?
[00:33:16] Denise Logan: I don't know you. I don't even know if I want to know you anymore. And often, one of those spouses will try to pull the business back in the way to avoid having to deal with the fact that we have grown apart or what we always said we would do when we reach that point is no longer what one of us wants to do. That's a very common thing. And I don't wanna see owners not harvest the wealth from their life's work because these things are standing in the way.
[00:33:54] Dustin Serviss: There's so many places I could go, Denise, and I'm appreciative. And listener, this has been gold. So thank you, Denise, for all the nuggets. What do you have as a closing thought for the twenty twenty six business owner? You've got all this wealth of knowledge and knowledge power in your very diverse career, successful career. What's one thing that you always said maybe fifteen, twenty years ago and thought would never change?
[00:34:23] Denise Logan: Yeah. I'm gonna cheat and give you two.
[00:34:28] Dustin Serviss: Awesome.
[00:34:29] Denise Logan: One is the clear reminder that we will leave our businesses at some point. And most of us as business owners are a little bit of control freaks. And I would much rather make that exit on my own terms, in my own way, than to have something happen to me or to my business. And so I think continuing to recall for yourself that there will be an end at some point and how much you can control that. I think the other piece is to remember that while everyone else in the process is going to be focused on the transaction, it is essential to make sure that you are also attending to the very normal transition that is happening.
[00:35:18] Denise Logan: Because what life will look like on the other side of the sale of your business is something that can be magical and grand, but only if you attend to it. Otherwise, it can feel like an accident, And sellers' remorse is a very real thing, and there is a way to avoid that.
[00:35:39] Dustin Serviss: What a great bookend. Denise, where can people find more information, and where can they find you online?
[00:35:46] Denise Logan: Yeah. So my website is denise logan dot com, and the book is available on all the platforms. But, also, if you buy it from my website, I will autograph it for you Very cool. And send it on to you. And what I would say is if you're struggling or any of this sounds familiar for you or if you're a listener for your parent, give a ring. Just reach out to me, and I'm happy to have a chat with you and let you think about two or three things that you might try to see if you can shift this for yourself because you deserve to have a lovely life on the other side of this fabulous business that you've built.
[00:36:26] Dustin Serviss: Wow, Denise. Thanks a lot for coming on the show today. It
[00:36:28] Denise Logan: was my pleasure.