Fatima Zaidi ON: The Future of Audio and Why Podcasting is a Content Medium You Can't Ignore (#113) — Transcript
Updated: Oct 26
THE PICTURE OF WEALTH · EPISODE 113
Fatima Zaidi, founder of Quill and CoHost, joins Dustin Serviss to discuss podcast audiences, analytics, monetization and building a focused audio brand.
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This transcript was generated from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. It may contain transcription or speaker-attribution errors. Refer to the recording for exact wording.
Chapters
[00:00:00] Analytics from day one
[00:03:41] Building a podcast agency
[00:07:07] Knowing your target audience
[00:10:53] Podcasting as a long-term commitment
[00:14:45] Audience size versus audience fit
[00:18:53] Resilience in entrepreneurship
[00:22:38] Success beyond work
[00:26:05] The accessibility of podcasting
[00:30:12] Consumption and demographic metrics
[00:34:20] Podcasts that evoke emotion
Guest & resources
Related episodes
Transcript
[00:00:00] Fatima Zaidi: So my hack isn't really a hack. It's to do things properly and set up your analytics from day one and make sure that you're utilizing the data to the best of your ability. That is the best way to bring in monetization efforts.
[00:00:14] Dustin Serviss: Efforts. Welcome to the Picture of Wealth or TPAW as we call it. I am your host, Dustin Service. Listener, that is the voice of Fatima Zaidi, who is the founder and CEO of Quill Inc, an award winning production agency specializing in corporate audio and co host, and which co host is a podcast growth and analytics tool. Now, this podcast was exciting. She shared a ton of information about podcasts. And so, it's an area of mystery, I think, where lots of podcasts out there, listener, you're listening to it. So you know that. Now, do podcasts make money? How do they make money? Where do these people promote themselves to drive business?
[00:00:52] Dustin Serviss: If you're thinking about starting a podcast, what's the framework you should use to start one? If you're wondering about sales and getting yourself in front of, you know, your audience, how do you do that? And Fatima lays all that out. She has, been a contributor to publications like The Globe and Mail, Huffington Post, featured on Forbes, and Entrepreneur. In the last few years, has won two top thirty under thirty awards and also the young professional of the year by notable life. Now if that isn't enough, she is also a commentator for BNN Bloomberg on the challenges that female founders face, who I appreciate her insight on
[00:01:25] Dustin Serviss: not only podcast, but business in general. I'm excited to have Fatima Zaidi on the show. She is the founder of Quill Inc and, also a leader of cohost. So we are gonna be talking everything marketing. We're gonna be talking everything, sales for business, and business owner, listener, entrepreneurially minded person, this is a podcast you will not wanna miss. Fatima, thanks a lot for being on the show.
[00:01:48] Fatima Zaidi: Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
[00:01:51] Dustin Serviss: You're you're welcome. And I was excited once I did the more, did a little more research on you and the amount of, you know, great places, Globe and Mail, Huffington Post, Forbes, Entrepreneur, all these different sort of places you show up in, at such a young age. I'm excited to know sort of what that journey is to get inroads into those places, you know, speak on on stages with, some of the the heavy hitters, in in gurus. And so maybe back us up to to what what you're actually doing, and why are you trying to promote your business so much? Why is this so important?
[00:02:27] Fatima Zaidi: Well, I would say that back in the day, I used to run a marketing agency, and it was two thousand fourteen when Serial came out and became a household name or at least made podcasting a household name. And back then, I didn't even know what podcasting was. I just knew that, you know, I was a true crime junkie and really enjoyed the podcast. It was, my gym time listening content, and it was the fittest I'd ever been. So, I I was really fascinated with the medium because I thought, well, it's it's a it's a content medium that, a, has really never been discovered before, and, b, it's not available to other traditional advertisers.
[00:03:08] Fatima Zaidi: You can be driving to work and listening to a podcast, but you can't be watching a Netflix show or a video. You can be walking your dog and listening to a podcast, but you blog. And so it was a really unique opportunity to be actively engaged in another activity while consuming content, which would increase your engagement rather than decrease it. And so I started thinking about it as a potential opportunity for my clients, And so I started thinking about it as a potential opportunity for my clients at the time. Like, wouldn't it be interesting if we created a a narrative format show that was audio only? Like, how would people tune in?
[00:03:41] Fatima Zaidi: Would people be interested in a format like this? So I decided to try it and test it out for one of our clients, and the the challenge was back then, there was a very, very few agencies that were specialized in podcast production and absolutely none that were specialized in audience growth. I was piecing together, you know, bunch of different freelancers hodgepodge ing a show together, and I thought there really needs to be a centralized agency that you can go to that not only specializes in creating a podcast, but also specializes in guaranteeing you or bringing in your qualified audience.
[00:04:18] Fatima Zaidi: So that's really how Quill was born, and then the product side of our business came a few years ago when we realized that we weren't getting access to the data that we needed to help our brands and clients understand the ROI of our show. Podcasting is still relatively early in the hype cycle as far as content channels go, and so being able to provide the right level of data to justify the creation of new seasons and new production budgets was extremely imperative to us, and that's why we decided to launch the first hosting platform that was geared towards companies that are podcasting.
[00:04:50] Fatima Zaidi: Now podcasting and building your business are very similar. It's a marathon, not a sprint. That is why I think it's so important to make sure that you, yourself, your personal brand, your company brand, and your podcasting brand are out there, you know, creating a killer brand and and just making sure that you're top of mind and topical. That's why, you know, the media publications, the speaking, we positioned ourselves as thought leaders and subject matter experts in this space, and it certainly wasn't an overnight success. It was definitely the marathon.
[00:05:24] Dustin Serviss: I can't wait to ask you, just a whole host of questions on the podcast topic because I think for listener who's listening to podcast, they obviously listen to podcasts. It's kind of a mystery how podcasts work and do people make money and, you know, does everyone make money? Does do... Does nobody... In your opinion, do you think that podcasts in the future will be like books, or will they be as extreme as, like, websites?
[00:05:47] Fatima Zaidi: Well, there's one point five billion websites out there. There's thirty plus million YouTube channels, six hundred plus million blogs, five hundred hours of content being uploaded every minute. And in comparison to that, there's only two million podcasts, eighteen percent of them are active. So let's just say, for argument's sake, there's half a million active podcasts out there. We're quite a ways away from being comparable to websites, but I would say it's definitely a content that cannot be ignored because everybody consumes content in different ways. Some people prefer reading. Some people prefer watching.
[00:06:23] Fatima Zaidi: I personally prefer audio, like, that's the way that I listen and learn best. And so, do I think that we are going to be synonymous with a blog or a company's newsletter or a video strategy? Absolutely. I think that, I always say that in the nineteen eighties, your company had a phone number. In the nineteen nineties, it was a website. In the two thousands, it was social. And I I believe that the next five to ten years is really going to be the wave of establishing audio.
[00:06:54] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. Well, that's, that's very... I didn't know all those stats that you just rattled off. But would would you say that every... Like, every business needs a podcast or is it specific to certain industries?
[00:07:07] Fatima Zaidi: I think it really depends on who it is that you're trying to reach in terms of your target audience. And so, no, I definitely wouldn't recommend it to everybody. Generally speaking, the audience that you'd be reaching is, older millennial professionals, not always, but generally speaking. And so, if that is your target audience, you know, people who have decision making power within the workforce and industry, folks who are generally of a millennial age range, I would say that, if you've already figured out your content strategy, if you've already figured out your newsletter and video, content, then a podcast may be the next
[00:07:43] Fatima Zaidi: natural step, especially if you already have an audience following you. And if you get it right, then you're really never going to find an audience more engaged, loyal, and dedicated than your podcast audience. And I think I mentioned this to you earlier when we were just, you know, setting up and and chatting back and forth. One of my favorite things about branded podcasts is that you're only reaching people who are interested in your content. And so your audience, no matter how big or how small, is highly relevant to be interacting with your brand. And, I think it can really do wonders for your bottom line and brand
[00:08:16] Fatima Zaidi: awareness if if done properly.
[00:08:19] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. Well, so unpack the, the sales side of things. So for people using podcasts, so you, you know, advise a number of clients, customers on podcasts and and the value of it. What what is a target? Like, what is something... Someone who's starting a show, who is, you know, getting going? What what are the expectations or what are some of these key performance, you know, markers that they should strive for? Is it to drive business to their window and door shop? Is it to actually be the biggest podcast host? You know? Like like, how much does Joe Rogan make? You know? He doesn't even have a business. He just has a podcast.
[00:08:58] Dustin Serviss: So, you know, I'm not asking that for for specific. But I'm just trying to get the... An idea of... Is it a high likelihood that you make money by having a show, or what should I expect?
[00:09:09] Fatima Zaidi: I think the KPIs that you're measuring are really, the success metrics are so contingent on your company or your podcast and your goals. I would say that our industry places a lot of emphasis on unique listeners and downloads. How many listeners do you have? How many times has the show been downloaded? And not enough emphasis on engagement metrics. So how loyal is your following? How engaged are they with your content? Are they, you know, binge listeners? Are they retained users who are listing all the way through to the end of your content? What is your average consumption rate?
[00:09:41] Fatima Zaidi: Ninety nine point nine percent of podcasters that I speak to day to day, a, don't know what some of those engagement metrics are, and, b, don't even know what average consumption rate means. When you are looking to monetize on your show, whether it's a sponsor or an advertiser, these are some of the questions that they're most concerned with. You know, if you're looking to reach a mass audience of folks, then digital marketing is the way to go. Run your Google Ads. Run your Facebook Ads. Podcasting is about reaching a niche specific intimate audience that is highly engaged with you as a podcast host influencer and your content.
[00:10:18] Fatima Zaidi: That's why people podcast. It's to create that intimate connection with their listeners. And so, really being on top of your engagement metrics is really, for me, the first step. Making sure that your average consumption rate is, like, above seventy percent, that people are listening through to the end of your content, that you're following your patterns in terms of repeat listeners. I think if I had a nickel for every time somebody brought up Joe Rogan, I think I would, you know, probably not need to be working anymore. And Joe Rogan is an interesting case study because, personally, I think his content sucks.
[00:10:53] Fatima Zaidi: I just think that the thing that Joe Rogan has mastered is the whole podcasting is a marathon, not a sprint. He's a dinosaur in this space. He's been podcasting before podcasting was even a term, and he just kept going. He kept going. He kept going. And, eventually, all of the years of garbage content that he promoted and put out, it it snowballed into the success that he is today. He's the Joe Rogan, and he appeals to a very specific target audience. I don't listen to Joe Rogan. I I think he's a joke. Most of the people that I know think his content is garbage, but he
[00:11:29] Fatima Zaidi: appeals to a very specific demographic, which is why he's been so successful with podcasting. A, he's continued doing it and kept his show active and and frequently put out, maybe not good content, but frequent content, and and, b, he hasn't tried to be something for everyone rather than he's focused on being something to someone, and he's very clear about who his audience is and how he's gonna create content for them. And and that's how he's become so successful today. And so those are the two I would say gradients to is a successful show.
[00:12:01] Dustin Serviss: Well, you bring up a a good and an interesting point. Is there... Because you deal with the metrics and you're following all the things. Is there a connection between... I'll give you an example. So Tim Ferris is another four hour work week, another
[00:12:13] Fatima Zaidi: Yes.
[00:12:13] Dustin Serviss: Long time sort of podcast guy. And so I used to listen to his because it started out like a business podcast, kind of business strategy. And then he got really into the mental health side of things, and then he kinda went on this, like, psilocybin mushroom Mhmm. Kind of every fourth episode. And I just sort of started tuning out because it was like, why is he doing so much on this topic? But is is there a strategy with podcasts of, like, following a wave like a surfer? It's like there's a wave of of something that's being consumed and people like it, versus really being focused on your audience of what specifically they like.
[00:12:50] Dustin Serviss: Is is there a question in there?
[00:12:51] Fatima Zaidi: I think that's really interesting that you bring that up because I also loved loved past tense Tim Ferriss and have also noticed that his content went down a very tangential rabbit hole of being very different from how he started. That's not to say that your content can't evolve and you can't rebrand, but I would say that he's probably had a lot of turnover in terms of his audience. And that's a risk that you do run if you decide to launch a podcast about business and entrepreneurship and, workday habits and then converting into your psychedelic psilocybin ketamine journey.
[00:13:27] Fatima Zaidi: Like, it's it's two very different shows, not to say one is better than the other. It's just two very... Usually, two very, different audience profiles. It's like Guy Raz tomorrow starting an entertainment show after how I built this. It just wouldn't necessarily fit. I think Tim Ferris is... You know, he's done really well with his content. He probably has a little bit of a different audience than what he once used to have, but I think it's absolutely fine as people we evolve and our brand changes for your podcast brand to change as well. Generally speaking though, if you're going to do that, I would recommend a rebrand.
[00:14:06] Dustin Serviss: And in your... So here's another question. So podcast starts, a person says, hey, you know, this is our audience. We think we wanna target because there's some sort of objective with... You know, we wanna we wanna sell, ladders or we wanna sell whatever, info. This is who we think the audience is. You create a brand that you think would appeal to them. The podcast gets going, and you start to see your audience analytics. And it's a slightly different audience, do you start... You just do you just keep doing what you're doing to build up a bigger audience of this maybe not target group
[00:14:45] Dustin Serviss: than keeping it sort of trying to stick to your your existing focus and have a smaller audience. Because in the big audience of, let's say, younger people buying ladders, whatever the... I'm just using an example. In there, if you got a massive twenty five thousand downloads a show, there's probably a few ladder buyers in there. And you've got this this big wheel versus you only get a thousand downloads a show, but it's hardware store people who wanna... Who like ladders. So help help me unpack, like, does the brand drive things after it's going and you start to see the audience analytics, or
[00:15:21] Dustin Serviss: does sort of who you naturally are drive what you should be trying to sell. Does that make sense?
[00:15:26] Fatima Zaidi: It does make sense. The answer is you should always stick to your focus. And one of the first exercises we do for all of our clients that come on board for Quill is a positioning document. So we take a look at three things. We look at their competitive matrix and how they fit into the market in comparison to some of their competitor shows and how are they going to be the first, the best, or different from these shows that are already out there. We also look at their ideal listener profile. So who are we creating this show for, and how are we creating this content for them? Where do they live? How are we going to target these folks?
[00:16:07] Fatima Zaidi: That podcast strategy almost becomes our bible in terms of, like, every decision that we make after we launch our show because we want to be hyper focused rather than trying to constantly reach that mass audience. Podcasting, it's the the shows that do the best are the ones that have a natural community. If you're launching a podcast on entrepreneurship, you're competing with the guy at Razzes, the Richard Branson's of the world. If you're launching a podcast on, investigative journalism, you're competing with the Reply All's This American Lives of the World. The more niche you can go, the more successful your podcast can be.
[00:16:45] Fatima Zaidi: I once had somebody come to our company, and they wanted to create a very, very niche podcast on open banking in a particular region in the world. And I said to him, I was like, I really don't know anyone who would listen to this podcast, and he... They really wanted... This company really wanted to create this this podcast, and it's one of the most successful podcasts that we have today. They have hundreds of thousands of listeners per episode. People all over the world tuning in to open banking content, and I learned a very valuable lesson that day, which is that the more niche your content and the more you can stand out and be different
[00:17:22] Fatima Zaidi: within the podcast marketplace, the more successful your show will be. And, now it's not about making it mass, you know, mass available or mass engaging to every single listener that is out there, but really focusing on who is that ideal listener profile, and how can we continue to be authentic to the people that we created this show for originally.
[00:17:45] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. Do you have, you... Since you meet so many, entrepreneurs and people who are doing podcast, is there any common things that stand out? Any top three productivity hack or mindset, you know, visualization that you kinda, like, just go, oh, yeah. You know, the thing I noticed or the thing I'm noticing the most right now is true leaders are doing this. Is is there something?
[00:18:09] Fatima Zaidi: Yeah. So all of the successful founders that I've seen in my ecosystem or worked with, I have found, a few a few things that they all have in common. One, it's this inability to fear rejection. I think when you're an entrepreneur, it's like being a salesperson. There's just so many no... Noes, so many doors slammed in your face. Every day is a new set of problems and your days never look the same. And as an entrepreneur, they are very comfortable with the discomfort and the uncertainty. They recognize that it is... If it was easy, everybody would do it. And, being comfortable with constantly putting yourself out there, and and
[00:18:53] Fatima Zaidi: I call it the sine curve, like, you know, every day brings a new set of challenges and they'll never look the same again. Those are the entrepreneurs that are successful, the ones who understand that getting your ducks in a row takes way more work than commanding them to line up, and you have to keep putting yourself out there. So it's this mentality of resilience and grit that I find every single founder that I've worked with, generally seems to have. And so that is the one that I'm gonna lead with because I feel like there's so many other DNA, focuses or circumstances that entrepreneurs need to embrace, but the resilience
[00:19:28] Fatima Zaidi: and grit is probably top of the list. One thing that I wish I would see more in entrepreneurs, and I'm starting to see it the more time goes on. I think it's like a new trend we're seeing this this generation, but I I wish I could see more of it is understanding that to be a good entrepreneur and CEO and founder, you need to embrace work life balance and understand that being successful isn't just about being successful at work. It's about having a well rounded life and making sure that your team has a work... Well rounded life as well. At Quill, nobody's left the company yet.
[00:20:02] Fatima Zaidi: We've had zero turnover because we ruthlessly prioritize our culture, work life balance. I don't work overtime, and I... I'm at the rule here is if I don't have to do it, then nobody else should. You just have to be smarter between the hours of nine to five.
[00:20:17] Dustin Serviss: How do you balance the the, because I'm all about work life balance and and prescribed to it. I think part of an entrepreneur's journey that's difficult, listener you may resonate, is there's almost like a, okay, I need to lay off the gas thought. And so you've built your whole existence and where you got to today by having growth goals and by sort of beefing up. So, you know, so so use listener with new children, child, and you've gotta, like, you gotta help out around the house. And you can't work twelve hours a day. It's not possible. So then it's... You're laying off the gas is how I, you know, kind of describe that. So is there is there,
[00:21:00] Dustin Serviss: an idea that you have around sort of, you know, decoupling that belief that you can actually be successful in your business and keep growing yet it doesn't mean you have to work as much. So you can be... And be successful and be awesome at being balanced, whatever that means for a listener.
[00:21:23] Fatima Zaidi: Yeah. And I mean, I know it's possible because I I work forty five hours a week, and and we are doing really well as a company. So I I think showing up to work tired or, like, not having a balanced life is like showing up to work drunk. I think there's scientific evidence that proves that you can only, maximize a certain level of productivity and output a day. And so after that, it's just noise. And so I generally find that I'm a better CEO and leader when I am healthy and happy and active and have a thriving social life and community. And it's funny. I know that now because I didn't know that ten years ago.
[00:22:03] Fatima Zaidi: I was not the epitome or poster child of work life balance. I was, like, under Gary v Spell. Life is a race. Go go go. You know, there's someone next to you. We're willing to work ten times harder and faster. You'll be left behind. And, unfortunately, I think it's... It can be really dangerous idolizing certain entrepreneurs and tycoons who sort of put this falsehood out there that you need to be working twenty four seven to be successful. And if not, there's somebody out there that's going to beat you to it. It's taken me a long time to sort of unlearn those bad habits, at the brink of exhaustion and burnout.
[00:22:38] Fatima Zaidi: And I've actually found that I have been more successful and more productive when I started to embrace, like, success in all areas of my life, not just work.
[00:22:49] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. The, so I... Ironically... So you and I share a lot of commonalities. So Gary v was someone who I, loved and and I have been off him for a little while, but he was just on the the diary of a CEO, podcast. And, I think that guy's name is Steve Bartlett. Great guy, but he he actually... So Gary v actually was in tears, more prescribing some... Talking about his past beliefs of that hustle, go go go sacrifice everything.
[00:23:23] Fatima Zaidi: Interesting. So he recognizes it too. So... See, I didn't know that.
[00:23:27] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. And so what he actually... You know, he makes a call that's, like, you know, about the future and that, you know, he's... I don't wanna say championing this leadership, but he he was identifying that the future might look like the average person makes sixty one thousand a year, and they are happier than they are now trying to make more. They just figure out their life of how to get more out of less. And I thought that was huge coming from him because that's not... That is not a Gary v, thing.
[00:23:59] Fatima Zaidi: Interesting. I... Yeah. I had no idea. I... To be honest, I haven't followed him in a really long time, but I just always assumed he was probably on the same trajectory or tangent. I think there is some sort of a happiness index study done anyways, and I think the threshold in North America is if you make seventy five thousand, And, you know, I think some people could definitely disagree because, like, you know, money definitely can buy happiness in some areas of your life. At the very least, it can give you options. So by no means am I saying don't strive to make more money. I'm a salesperson. Cash flow is king.
[00:24:40] Fatima Zaidi: That is what I'm motivated by, definitely money. But at the end of the day, I would say that being successful at work and in your career and your job is, like, one of the five pillars, and you really have to maximize your your existence today in all facets of your life, whether that be your health. Without your health, you can't enjoy your money. Without your community and your relationships, it's gonna be really isolating and lonely. Charitable work, philanthropy given back, actually, ironically, the work that I find the most fulfilling in the work that I do today is the charity work that I do for Sick Kids Hospital.
[00:25:18] Fatima Zaidi: And so the the happiness that you derive today isn't necessarily going to come from your nine to five job, and so, you know, I think that today's entrepreneurs are are really figuring that out.
[00:25:31] Dustin Serviss: Do you think there's a correlation between, doing podcasts or doing videos and, more confidence in sales in general? Do you think there's, you know, a benefit to, I'll say, practicing? But, you know, I've seen lots of your media stuff on... Online, and that didn't that wasn't... That didn't happen overnight because the videos got... Get better as you go on as as sort of you watch them. So is there, you know, should someone have a podcast almost to practice? Or is it, is it a lot too much work, too much money to be better at their craft?
[00:26:05] Fatima Zaidi: It's definitely not too much money. I think anybody with, like, an Internet connection of phone could could podcast. That's the beauty of it. It's a very decentralized medium. Anyone can sort of join. There's very low barriers to entry. The interesting thing is in the day and age that we live in, we can all... Every single one of us can run our businesses in our... You know, with our laptops, at our home, behind closed doors without ever having to interact with the outside world, thanks to ads, thanks to SEO, thanks to PPC. But I get asked all the time, like, how did you build your personal brand and how did you build your network?
[00:26:39] Fatima Zaidi: And my answer is always one handshake at a time. And I think online tactics, while it's easier because you're behind closed doors and you think you're being more productive, offline tactics actually have the power to form stronger relationships. And so, when you're thinking about the sales work that you're doing, I always say try to balance the online tactics of videos, webinars, SEO, content generation, ads, all of the things that you do, but also make sure that you're keeping time for the humanizing, you know, face to face tactics where you can actually get to know people at face value rather than hiding behind a screen.
[00:27:20] Fatima Zaidi: The latter, I think, has been way more beneficial for my career than the former.
[00:27:25] Dustin Serviss: Mhmm. Is there any sort of... I'm kinda coming back, so I wanna kinda close off the the podcast side of things. Is there any strategies that seem to be the best or sort of... I'll say the best. It's a it's a very general. But podcast strategy on monetizing a a podcast. So when listeners listening, they go, oh, is this person just doing this for free? Well, other than maybe they're, you know, they're a car dealer as they're trying to talk about car stuff to drive you to the dealership to buy a car for them. Let... Like, leave that one off to the side. But other just like raw using the podcast to generate
[00:28:00] Dustin Serviss: money, is there is there other strategies you could you could kinda shed some light on? Because I think it is a big mystery in, in the world.
[00:28:09] Fatima Zaidi: Oh my goodness. I teach at U of T and one of... I teach podcasting at U of T, and I have a whole module dedicated to monetization and the different ways you can do it. And there's so many different strategies. There's no one size fits all formula, and I think a lot of podcasters are rich in a lot of different ways. I would say that the most lucrative one that I found is to to find an exclusive sponsor for your series if you are looking to monetize on your show. So, again, that's where it really helps to have a niche show, so that you can target niche sponsors who are trying to reach a dedicated audience.
[00:28:43] Fatima Zaidi: And your your audience size is not about reach, but it's about engagement. I have a friend who... Actually multiple friends who have podcasts that have not had that many listeners. I mean, I'm saying couple hundred downloads per episode, but they definitely have sponsors knocking on their door because their audience is so specific and so engaged and hyper focused. Advertising slots is another way that you can do it, which is bundling packages so people can do pre roll, mid roll, post roll ads on your show, again, to reach a dedicated audience. The the the podcast advertising space is really interesting because
[00:29:22] Fatima Zaidi: I think that sponsors are now less concerned with, do you have thousands and millions of listeners and more so concerned with, okay, well, what is the demographic of the listener? Are they listening all the way through to the end? Are they repeat listeners? Are they loyal listeners? What location are they coming through? What channels are they coming through? Which is why I think analytics is a really important part of monetization today. And, you know, if you can show your sponsors what companies are listening to your podcast, that's sort of a game changer. So my hack isn't really a hack.
[00:29:55] Fatima Zaidi: It's to do things properly and set up your analytics from day one and make sure that you're utilizing the data to the best of your ability. That is the best way to bring in monetization efforts.
[00:30:05] Dustin Serviss: What are the three best metrics? What are the three metrics that that someone needs to... Is like a must?
[00:30:12] Fatima Zaidi: I would say top of my list is average consumption rate that shows you where the drop offs are happening. So are they listening all the way through to the end? Are they dropping off in the first five minutes? If they, you know, drop off in the first five minutes, that still constitutes as a listener. It just doesn't constitute as a very happy listener. The second, I would say, metric is demographic data. So really looking at, like, who's listening to your show, age, gender, household income, occupation, and with that, where did they come from? Are they coming from Facebook promotion? Are they coming from your newsletters? Did you...
[00:30:45] Fatima Zaidi: You know, are your guest promotions working? That way, you can actually prioritize your time and see which efforts are working and double down on those rather than trying to be everywhere at once. We really rely heavily on those tracking links. And then I would say the last sort of KPI that I think is really important, especially if you're a b to b company, is b to b analytics. So being able to see what companies, employees, industries, company sizes, revenue sizes are listening and tuning into your show because it shows you it's another data point on, are you reaching the right audiences, and
[00:31:17] Fatima Zaidi: then how do you, from there, build a relationship with those people. So So you can export those lists and reach out to them for a sponsorship, for advertising, for your company prospecting, to have be a guest on your show. There's so many different ways to engage that data.
[00:31:31] Dustin Serviss: Mhmm. And Spotify or Apple? Like, which platform... Or is there other platforms that we should be aware of that are better than Spotify or Apple?
[00:31:41] Fatima Zaidi: Well, Apple doesn't allow us to advertise on their platform. We're, like, a very insignificant part of their revenue roster, the industry of podcasting. So they haven't really paid much attention to us. Spotify, on the other hand, you know, spent millions of dollars on a Joe Rogan deal, so there's a little bit of judgment there. I would say between the two, I'd probably select Spotify just because I feel like they've done more for our industry in terms of moving it forward. There are a ton of other listing platforms, though, that I would recommend listing on, like Player FM, Castbox, Overcast, Castro, iHeartRadio, Stitcher, Amazon, Google.
[00:32:20] Fatima Zaidi: There's there's, you know, the opportunities are endless.
[00:32:23] Dustin Serviss: It it is... Is it those other platforms because they all do sort of different AI or they like source playlist like...
[00:32:30] Fatima Zaidi: They allow you to advertise. Yeah. They allow you to advertise on those platforms. So for example, Apple Podcasts doesn't allow you to advertise, but Podcast Addict does. And Podcast Addict is the Android version of Apple Podcasts. So if you don't have an iPhone, which, unfortunately, I do, here I am, you know, sitting here and shit talking Apple, yet I do have an iPhone. I'm on my Mac with my Mac headphones and my Mac, microphone. But, if I didn't have an iPhone and I've had a Google or Android phone, the app for podcast on my phone would be called podcast addict, and they allow you to obviously listen to shows, but they also allow you
[00:33:06] Fatima Zaidi: to advertise.
[00:33:09] Dustin Serviss: If you had, a few podcasts that you would recommend that are, you know... So listener is thinking about doing a show, that is maybe is... Not necessarily not the best podcast, but the best structure or for a podcast starter, someone who's starting a podcast, is there one where the framework of the podcast is, you know, sort of base level, a good foundation? If you start by listening to this one or two or three podcasts and see how the the host is is sort of going through the framework, then you will be set up for success.
[00:33:42] Fatima Zaidi: So it depends on the format of the show. Like, are you looking to do a narrative show, one that's like an investigative journalistic series? Are you looking for an advanced interview format, a roundtable, solo commentary? I think different structures sort of require different processes. There are a few shows that I really love. Recently, I've been listening to the history of the nineties. It's a podcast, really unique format, and each episode is, basically a a different phenomena from the nineties. So if you're a Friends fan like me, their Friends episode is amazing, but they they also have a ton of other really great ones like
[00:34:20] Fatima Zaidi: boy bands and the Columbine shootings. And you're just, like, really... It's really, like, nineties is so nostalgic. I think that's why everybody loved the nineties, and everybody loves Stranger Things because the nineties is such a nostalgic time period for us. And so that's a show that I think has done it really well in terms of bringing you back and, like, bringing a feeling out, which I think all good podcasts do is evoke an emotion. I've also been listening to the missing crypto queen, which is a Ponzi scheme in the crypto space. Really interesting if you're into true crime or, anything of that genre of similar to serial.
[00:34:58] Fatima Zaidi: Ten Percent Happier by Dan Harris is a really feel good podcast. I really, really enjoy that one. And then the other one that I would recommend is Akimbo by Seth Godin. I really just love Seth Godin. He's a Seth Godin fan. He's a great content creator and marketing genius. So those are the ones that I'm currently listening to that I would recommend.
[00:35:20] Dustin Serviss: Dimit, thanks, thanks a lot for that. Is there, any other things that you are truly excited about right now, in your space that you wanna share with the listener to move their business forward, whether that's start a podcast or enhance their existing podcast?
[00:35:38] Fatima Zaidi: Well, definitely start a podcast that I feel like I'm a little bit impartial to the industry, but also, it's it's a marathon, not a sprint, and it takes time. There's no such thing as instant gratification in this industry.
[00:35:50] Dustin Serviss: Where can people find you?
[00:35:52] Fatima Zaidi: I am on all of the social channels except for TikTok. At zadia. Fatima is my handle, and, we're pretty... Quill and Quill host are both very active on online, so you can pretty much reach me anywhere you want if you're trying to.
[00:36:06] Dustin Serviss: Thanks, Fatima. Side, side question. Why are you not on TikTok?
[00:36:11] Fatima Zaidi: I don't know. I've just I've just sort of resisted the temptation of, like, hours of procrastination time. And and to be honest, you know, it's it's so addictive. Like, now they've started making their rounds to Instagram and, like, I can see why it's so addictive. And I just feel like it's going to be two hours taken off of my day if I, like, go on TikTok, and I've really tried to resist the temptation.
[00:36:32] Dustin Serviss: Tima, thanks a lot.
[00:36:33] Fatima Zaidi: Are you on TikTok?
[00:36:34] Dustin Serviss: I... And we just actually are, you know, basically, keeping our Facebook page very sort of static, and we're focusing our energy LinkedIn, Instagram. That's, where we're at.
[00:36:45] Fatima Zaidi: Yep. That makes sense. You can't be on all
[00:36:47] Dustin Serviss: the channels. It's hard. Like you said, focusing and and niching.
[00:36:50] Fatima Zaidi: Yes.
[00:36:50] Dustin Serviss: Well, thanks thanks for being on the show, and I look forward to, maybe a part two in the future.
[00:36:56] Fatima Zaidi: Thank you. Dustin, take care.
[00:37:00] Dustin Serviss: Thank you for tuning in to this episode. If you enjoyed the show, please like and rate the show, share with a friend, or use your new knowledge in your next conversation. If during the show something gave you a pang of inspiration, motivation, or sense of uncertainty, act on it now. Get the clarity you're looking for. Find the permission you seek. Go to service wealth dot com to discover how others are learning how to take Fridays off or buying a recreation property or spending more money. If you're an organizer of an event where you believe my philosophy on finance
[00:37:28] Dustin Serviss: lifestyle design would be applicable, go to service wealth dot com and book me as a speaker at your next event. If you want a copy of our new book coming out soon, send me a message on Instagram or Facebook, and we will be sure to get you a first copy.