How Lucas Matiello Helps Leaders Master Confident Speaking (#175) — Transcript
Updated: Oct 26
THE PICTURE OF WEALTH · EPISODE 175
What do you want an audience to feel, understand or do after you speak? Lucas Matiello joins Dustin Serviss to discuss public-speaking confidence, storytelling and making a message land in meetings, on stage and in everyday conversations.
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This transcript was generated from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. It may contain transcription or speaker-attribution errors. Refer to the recording for exact wording.
Chapters
[00:00:00] Start with what the audience should feel or do
[00:08:23] Adding stories and humor to a competent presentation
[00:11:59] Preparing without reciting a script
[00:16:29] The difference between a presenter and an artist
[00:20:01] Finding the courage to show your own flavor
[00:26:56] Reconsidering direction and the work that matters
[00:34:24] Training for a new role and impostor feelings
Guest & resources
Related episodes
Transcript
[00:00:00] Lucas Matiello: I always believe in reverse engineering the message. So what is the purpose of this talk? What do I want to get out of it? Like, you as a speaker, what do you want the audience to feel or to get out of it? Once you have those elements and those questions answered, then you can build. So the first thing I would say is just ask yourself, why am I talking?
[00:00:19] Dustin Serviss: Listener, Lucas Mattiello. Now Lucas is on the podcast today talking about a number of things, but what we really dove into was public speaking, and that could mean emceeing a wedding to, you know, emceeing a business event. It could mean delivering a public speech where you are a professional. And it could also mean leading a meeting of an organization or with your team or just having a one on one meeting and how to be more effective in making your point land well with the other person. Or he does a great job and I won't ruin the surprise, but there is a deeper secret to delivering a very powerful message.
[00:01:00] Dustin Serviss: And he does get into it in the episode, and I'm excited to share this one with you. Lucas, so the first thing I wanted to say is last time we were together in Toronto, I want to apologize for not being very present at the Raptors game with you. Oh. If you remember, I had some flight trauma in Toronto. So thanks a lot for coming on the show, and give me a second chance.
[00:01:23] Lucas Matiello: Of course. Appreciate it. And that was a whole adventure, wasn't it? Well, yeah.
[00:01:28] Dustin Serviss: I don't know. I don't even know if my WestJet account or Air Canada account is rectified. We called for refunds, but there was so much overlap in buying, you know, duplicate flights. And I... You know, I've traveled a lot of years. That was definitely the messiest. I feel bad for Jim. So, Jim, if you're listening, thank you also for the tickets that night because I felt like a spoiled little brat, like, twelve year old trying to deal with my tickets while not watching the game. So thanks. Lucas, we're gonna talk about public speaking as is one thing, but corporate training, I think the essence of where I wanted to go today, I'm genuinely
[00:02:05] Dustin Serviss: interested in upping my game. Again, I'm a podcast host. I would love to know sort of some of those tools and tricks you use because I think... I don't know if you feel this way, listener, that, you know, if you could public speak better, that would translate into other parts of your life in a form of confidence. And maybe give us a story of, you know, maybe one or two people that that you've seen that in and where, you know, yeah, we talked about corporate training or being more, you know, having a better presence, but where that led to other advantages in someone's life.
[00:02:39] Lucas Matiello: Yeah. Absolutely. There's one gentleman in particular. I won't use names just to be, you know, professional, but it was... Came in, you know, middle management, and it was typical scenario. Don't like public speaking. Avoid it if I can. If I have to because I'm in a bit of a management leadership position I have to, then I'll go to it, but it leads to a lot of stress, overthinking, restless nights. I just try to get through it as quickly as I can, and then I don't like the result. And so we came... He did our speak with confidence training. And what... There was just getting the assessment of where he was, seeing an accurate picture,
[00:03:15] Lucas Matiello: building the fundamental skills, and then the confidence to not only just do it good, but also look good when you do it. And so it was interesting because I do a fault call two weeks after training. And on the fault call, I'm like, hey. So tell me, what are some wins? What do you got? And he goes, Lucas, speaking up in meetings, feeling great doing it. My boss noticed. I got positive feedback. But the big win though is that... He goes, my son... He goes, I have two kids. And my son... It was his first communion. And this is my younger son. And he goes, he came from a very small family, and his wife has a big family. And so that...
[00:03:50] Lucas Matiello: They're having this party. And one of them says, hey. Do you want to do a speech? And he's, you know what? Yeah. I will. And he goes, I got up there, and I said some words about my son and the family, and I addressed everybody. And he's... That was such a big win for me because I... He goes, I signed up to be better at my role and my job, but then seeing it's, like, these social events and family events. He's, like, the feeling of just feeling proud as a man, as a father, as a parent to show appreciation in these moments. He's... This was priceless. I never even thought about stuff like this happening, but it's showing... He goes, I'll...
[00:04:28] Lucas Matiello: Instantly, he goes, I don't know. Maybe it's parental guilt. I felt bad for my other son that I didn't do it for him, my older son. But that's something that it shows up in so many different ways.
[00:04:38] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. That... So I I think of... So he brought that up a little. I MC'd last summer a wedding, and I also spoke or I MC'd a business event. And I hadn't done one of those in a long time. And so I think I'll just kinda take you on a short little journey, and you could maybe help critique some of my techniques. Because in a MC role or get... You know, giving a motivational speech is one thing. But let's just... Like, MC is a lot smaller of an obligation for someone, or maybe they wanna just be able to toast at their kid's graduation. It's that time of year right now, but maybe they want to... Or a wedding or, you know, whatever.
[00:05:14] Dustin Serviss: Small little toast even to a business group. I had my notes. I had been given the set things, but in that role that I was playing, should I be trying to create some humor? Should I be trying to create some memorable moments for the audience about me, or should it be just leading sort of the day or leading the, you know, do your task kind of thing? Do you know kinda where I'm going with that?
[00:05:46] Lucas Matiello: I do. And it's tough to give a definitive answer because there's a couple things there. So I always look at it from, like, a hierarchy of capabilities, if you will. Capability number one is just survive. And by survive, can you just get through and actually keep the event going and follow the agenda?
[00:06:02] Dustin Serviss: Okay. So I can... I believe in myself that I can survive.
[00:06:05] Lucas Matiello: Yeah. Yeah. That's the first one. Right? So in that scenario, it's what is the minimum requirement or agreed upon expectation? It's, you know, Dustin, you're gonna go there and you're gonna lead this event and speak to the main points and run the event in in the proper way. Right? And that's... Like, the box has been ticked. Will you wow them? Will you inspire them? No. But as far as expectations, you've accomplished it. Now depending on your stress levels, your confidence, and your comfort with the material, that might be all you can achieve in that moment. Once you're okay with that, then that can open you up to higher levels
[00:06:39] Lucas Matiello: to add elements like humor, inspiration, elements like that. But if you are overwhelmed and stressed out, your focus is just gonna be on how can I just get through this and not embarrass and completely blank out and have this thing fall apart? So it it really depends on where you are. The base level is, like I said, survival speaking, that's what I call it. So can I just get through the speaking obligation and tick the box? Once you have the skills or the comfort, then you can go to speaking to inspire, speaking like a leader, these types of things.
[00:07:10] Dustin Serviss: Okay. I'll play your game with you. So I was confident that I could deliver what was expected. I had added confidence because I speak on the podcast, which is different than live, but I know that my voice works. I know that it can be big. It can deliver a message. I... I'll just share openly and honestly that when you are speaking there, you're also like, well, this might be a marketing thing where people might... Or like, who is that guy? So then is the next level where I'm at where you're saying, well, I wanna leave a lasting impression. Again, I talk on the podcast. We've got lots of metaphors, lots of things up my sleeve in vocabulary,
[00:07:48] Dustin Serviss: but it is different when you deliver a message where you think it's landing in the audience. You see them looking back at you, and it's not landing. So what do you teach in that regard, or where do you hone someone if... You know? So say we were visiting before I was going there, what would you be kinda, like, having me check-in on leading up to it to see kinda where I'm at and then what level to push it, where it's like, it's gonna land bad, or it's gonna be like you're just a little bit above average of delivering the message, and there's some infotainment there.
[00:08:23] Lucas Matiello: Yeah. No. Absolutely. And just based on what you shared in terms of context, I feel like the survival speaking, you have that. So you could fulfill that based on the podcast experience that you had comfort with it. So the next thing would be looking into what elements can you use to just add a bit of flavor to it. The infotainment, I love that aspect too that you said. So it'd be... What are some key stories you could add? Key stories, humor, some jokes in there. Just have a few of them in there that would be able to kind of add a little bit of spice to. You mentioned one thing, marketing, which if you could tie that in, though, you
[00:08:55] Lucas Matiello: have to tie that in a way that makes sense so that it doesn't seem like shameless self promotion. So if you could tie that into a story involving the event or the people, then it would make a lot more sense. Right.
[00:09:09] Dustin Serviss: Okay. So there there isn't like a... So if we go back to listener who is, you know, maybe just... We're just... Wanna give a presentation, an accountant, a lawyer, a business owner that wants to be able to present to said twenty people, even staff. Because this is... You know, if you wanna... You know, not everyone's in sales, but there is usually an agenda when you're, like, delivering a message. There is, like, a underlying reason you're up there. So for common listener, where do they start in getting better at, you know, your company level up or the level up program? Like, where do they start?
[00:09:47] Lucas Matiello: Yeah. You mentioned one thing that was spot on, doesn't it? And that was around what's the point. The biggest thing is to shift. You might not be in sales, but we are all in sales. And I think that's beyond... There's a number of key areas that we focus on. But the first one in the fundamentals, what's the point of your talk? So anytime you're getting up and speaking... And this is a huge mistake that I see all the time as people, they don't have a specific intent or a purpose. And if you don't know why... So whether it's to motivate the team, whether it's to introduce a new product,
[00:10:18] Lucas Matiello: whether it's to inspire, whether it's to actually sell, you have to get clear on... I always believe in reverse engineering the message. So what is the purpose of this talk? What do I want to get out of it? Like, you, as a speaker, what do you want the audience to feel or to get out of it? Once you have those elements and those questions answered, then you can build. So the first thing I would say is just ask yourself, why am I talking? And if... Even bottom line, if it's for you to feel reassured of why you're taking this, like, it's a reinforcement for yourself to sell yourself on why you can...
[00:10:53] Lucas Matiello: You're speaking, that alone is enough to make you feel more confident or at least ready to put yourself out there. So that's the first thing I would absolutely do.
[00:11:01] Dustin Serviss: Do you see more or less success where people wing it and just kinda follow their heart and, you know, Jesus take the wheel opposed to really, like, writing a script and, you know, everyone... I wanna write a script, but then I'm gonna memorize it, and then I'm just gonna say it. Is everyone different, or is there sort of, like, a statistical thing that says, hey. Like, preparing a bit?
[00:11:27] Lucas Matiello: Absolutely. So back to having that purpose. So what's the point of the message? What do I wanna get across? And it's interesting that you mentioned that because there's two different ways. Some people are gonna wing it. Some people are on the script and memorize. The problem with wing it is you can go off on tangents, and it could also not line up with your purpose. Let's just say that you have a purpose, which would be best case scenario of what you wanna get. If you wing it, you could go on a different direction and miss the mark. That's bad. The other side, though, if you memorize it, a, you're assuming that a person
[00:11:59] Lucas Matiello: has the time, which is very finite and scarce. So let's just assume that they do have the time to script out and memorize. The problem is when they come to deliver, they're gonna be in their head, and the delivery drops. And what I mean by drops in terms of quality, in terms of impact, because they're trying to remember every word, typically comes across like they're reciting as opposed to speaking. And so I find and what we advise our clients is to find the middle ground of know the purpose of your talk, what are the main bullet points that you need to hit, and that's where you can expand on it
[00:12:31] Lucas Matiello: where it's that trust yourself to expand on the main bullet points, and that's gonna get you where you feel the most natural and also most impactful.
[00:12:39] Dustin Serviss: Can you help listener understand how to weave a story and maybe use an example into a speech? And if... I'm baiting you a bit. But if drawing a story into a speech elevates stress or lowers stress Absolutely. In delivering a better
[00:13:01] Lucas Matiello: Great point there. So with it... You know, it's interesting because people generally... They'll watch some YouTube videos,
[00:13:09] Dustin Serviss: and
[00:13:09] Lucas Matiello: they'll hear stories are great. Okay. So the average listener hears that, goes, I need to tell stories. But stories without purpose take people... Is entertaining. And I used to start this. I remember years ago when I was started. This is going back, right, ten years ago now. I would go on and tell my personal journey. You know, I had anxiety, overcame it, started speaking, all this. And I was selling a product. Like, I... It was a business presentation, which I would then say, if you wanna work with me, book a call, sign up, whatever it was. And I remember I'd be speaking in front of twenty, thirty people, and I'd
[00:13:45] Lucas Matiello: have all these people come up at the end. And they'd come up, and I'm like, oh my gosh. I'm so excited. Here we go. Sign them up. And they say, great story. I'm so proud of you. That's impressive what you've done. That's so inspiring. And they walk out, and I would have zero sales. And I'm sitting there going, what the hell was that? It landed. It made an impact. It's because the story was my personal turnaround story. Now this is the mistake people make. If you're the audience and you're there at an event about speaking with confidence and the speaker is saying how they went from struggling to confident and
[00:14:17] Lucas Matiello: now speaking, it's inspirational and it's good for them. But it's missing the one element, which is how does that then transfer to them to help them achieve their goals? Right. So the biggest mistake that I was making there was that I was the hero in the story. I'm not the hero. I'm the mentor. The audience is the hero. So what I should have done in those scenarios and what I do now is I went through this and along that path, I developed a system that I've now used successfully for myself, but I've used it with over a thousand clients to then help them get the results that they want. So it's my personal journey created the system, which now
[00:14:53] Lucas Matiello: gets results for the masses. Mhmm.
[00:14:56] Dustin Serviss: And you
[00:14:56] Lucas Matiello: see how it's different from it's like one, hey. I went from, you know, struggle to this. Good for you. Versus, oh, hey. This is battle tested. It's proven. It works, and it's gonna help me achieve my goals. Completely different in terms of the result and the mindset upgrade for the audience.
[00:15:12] Dustin Serviss: The entry point is how I see it's kinda different. Right?
[00:15:16] Lucas Matiello: Exactly. It's even... So so to the listeners here, if you're telling a story, like, stories are great. Amazing. Stories last through time. They're easily remembered. All these amazing things. But you have to tell intentional stories. You have to be very strategic. So this is what I do advise is even... You tell a story to make a point. So first, you gotta ask yourself, what is the point that I wanna make? And then you start looking at what's a story that could reinforce the point. Maybe not a book. Maybe not about yourself. And if it is about yourself, you gotta then transfer it to the audience. But, typically, I find...
[00:15:52] Lucas Matiello: To be completely transparent, when I'm on a stage or when I'm doing sales calls, people hear my stories. They see the TEDx talk. They see all these things. But there's a percentage of people that are always skeptical. They're like, you're selling things. And, yes, I am selling things. I have a product. I have a service that I sell. Right. So they... There's a certain level of skepticism, which is fair. That's understandable. And that's where testimonial videos, before and after videos, client stories, that's more relatable for people. So Yeah. Listeners find these success stories will outperform your story every time.
[00:16:29] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. That's a great point. Listeners, that was a gift. Thank you, Luke. Okay. So I wanna dive into one other thing because we've really been talking objective focused. So it's, hey. This is the objective because the person knows where they wanna go. Is there a form of speaker out there that's more like an artist than a really good presenter? So in... Yeah. I'm gonna put it on you for your story.
[00:16:57] Lucas Matiello: Sure.
[00:16:57] Dustin Serviss: If there is a story in your life where you've discovered a breakthrough in your craft, in your process, in your speaking ability where you didn't have an object... Like, you had maybe this objective over here, but you discovered this thing that was way up. Like, you discovered this new thing Mhmm. Where there's sort of like... You were just playing or, you know, playing around or listening or doing something that's not business or not... I'm gonna write a book, and it's like you were doing something else, and a big breakthrough happened in in your corporation... You know, in your ethos, if you will. You got a... You got an example?
[00:17:39] Lucas Matiello: I do. And it's interesting. It's something that's very relatable. It's centered around ice cream. Most people like ice cream.
[00:17:45] Dustin Serviss: K.
[00:17:46] Lucas Matiello: And so in Vancouver here, there's a shop called Casa Gelato, and they have the world record of most flavors in in a place. It's like two hundred and twenty plus flavors. You you walk in there, and it's ten minutes from my place. It's very dangerous. So one day I go there and I was taking my nieces and we're walking around. Look. It's just... It's a rectangle place with just an absurd number of flavors and wild combinations. They'll have a green tea wasabi. They have a chocolate bacon, like, all these crazy, you know, crazy flavors. And I noticed that where were my nieces and people going? They're like, oh my god. Look at that.
[00:18:23] Lucas Matiello: Look at that chocolate bacon. That's crazy. Like, it's all these really exotic flavors and combinations that seem wild that people are like, woah, bubble... Like bright colors, bold combinations. It grabbed everyone's attention. And there was a couple of main things that took away is that number one, how many people... You know, you have two hundred plus flavors. How many people are picking vanilla? Right?
[00:18:47] Dustin Serviss: I don't know. That would be an interesting stat because it may be more than we both think because I would think... I would be a guy that gravitate toward the wilder one. It's like, I'm here. I don't live there. So it's like, I would want it the most bizarre to talk about it.
[00:18:59] Lucas Matiello: Yeah. Exactly. So it would catch your attention, stand out. Right? So I don't know the percentage of people that would get Padilla. I think I would just assume, and I'm making this assumption. I could be wrong. But I assume that when you have all these wild exotic colors and flavors and combinations that statistically most people don't get vanilla.
[00:19:18] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:19:18] Lucas Matiello: And so when I looked at it, it looked quite flat. It's like, small sample size, but enough to go, okay. What I will say is that nobody was shocked. There was no one commenting around, wow, there's vanilla here. That's expected. Right? And so the the main takeaway though, taking my nieces out, is that they have all these flavors. Vanilla was overlooked. People were commenting and really... What was standing up was the bright colors and the bold flavors. And the analogy that I took from it is when people are speaking in public and they're nervous, what do they do? They're survival speaking. It's just, how can I get through?
[00:19:53] Lucas Matiello: How do I not rock the boat? How do I not offend anyone? How do I make sure that I don't say the wrong thing? I'm like, they're being vanilla. They're trying
[00:20:01] Dustin Serviss: to make
[00:20:01] Lucas Matiello: vanilla, but it's so productive. Why? Because they're trying to win everyone over. But when you have all these choices, if you're a very plain flavor, you're not gonna get picked. No one's gonna be excited to pick you. Yeah. And so with it, though, the takeaway was that us, me, you, all the listeners, we are all one flavor in this ice cream shop. Whatever business, service, industry you're in, you are a flavor. Now are you being vanilla, or are you gonna have the courage to be your true flavor? Maybe it's a bit brighter. Maybe it's a bit bolder. Maybe it's a bit different.
[00:20:38] Lucas Matiello: And the thing is too with that, Dustin, say it's a wild combination and somebody picks it, when they walk out, they're happy. They're excited. You mentioned you'd get the wildest combination, so you have something to talk about.
[00:20:50] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. I'd be excited. Of course.
[00:20:52] Lucas Matiello: You'd be excited. And when you go home, you'd be telling everyone about this wild combination. Yeah. But here's the thing. Would you be thinking about all the missed flavors that you didn't pick?
[00:21:03] Dustin Serviss: Oh, that's a good question.
[00:21:05] Lucas Matiello: Probably not.
[00:21:06] Dustin Serviss: Right? Well, it Yeah.
[00:21:07] Lucas Matiello: If you're back home talking about this flavor, you know
[00:21:09] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. No. They
[00:21:10] Lucas Matiello: they also had a rocky
[00:21:11] Dustin Serviss: You're right.
[00:21:12] Lucas Matiello: You're totally right. Road, and they had a truck... You... That wouldn't come up. Yeah. So the lesson here that we can take away is that we need to be the... Whatever bold flavor that we are. Number... Step one is to see that you are a flavor in the ice cream case. Step two is for you to identify it, and step three is to put it out there. Because like you, you're gonna pick that flavor. You're gonna go home. You're gonna talk about the remarkable experience or the unique experience you had. You're not gonna think about the ones you didn't pick. You're gonna be happy with the one you did have. And so most people try to be liked by everyone.
[00:21:46] Lucas Matiello: They try to be vanilla. You're just gonna get overlooked, and no one's gonna be excited to work with you. So be bold. Be bold. Be that flavor and put it out there.
[00:21:54] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. I just had a great podcast. Like, it was her... On her podcast, Adrian Wilkinson. But we were talking about how twenty years ago in the finance space, I was never really a tie guy, but, like, black suit, white shirt, pants. It's like, how do you look different in the sea of black suit financial planner wealth investment guys? You're not. But then in in my young brain, I was really programmed that, well, if you wanna work with affluent people, you gotta look a certain way. And so you get this kinda, like, mold, and then, you know, that kinda goes on for too long. And then you get older. You get a brain tumor, and you're, you know what?
[00:22:31] Dustin Serviss: Screw it. I just wanna be myself. I'm still the same... Still carry the same advice. Still call people back within twenty four hours. It's all still there. I'm wearing a T shirt right now that says service on it. So it's just a... Again, I'm living... I feel like I'm there with you in sort of Absolutely.
[00:22:47] Lucas Matiello: And it
[00:22:47] Dustin Serviss: does feel good. It feels scary, though, sometimes. I still will admit that it does feel a little scary that you're doing the wrong thing.
[00:22:56] Lucas Matiello: Absolutely. No. I hear you. I hear you, Dustin. And it's one of those things where just from my own experience is that you have to be okay with a loss. And what I mean by this is that I use the example of if you're trying to be... Call it a boxing champion, right, and you wanna win the belt, you have to go into the championship fight knowing that there's a chance that you could lose. I guess it's a reality. But the thing is most people when they're they're playing it safe and playing it safe, it'll be the black suit and tie. It's... We were program... You know, you were programmed in that interest.
[00:23:28] Lucas Matiello: For you to be part of this, for you to be successful, you have to dress this way. And now you're seeing that it's a different way. But the thing is too, like, you have to be okay with somebody saying, hey. I would never work with an adviser who has... That wears a T shirt.
[00:23:41] Dustin Serviss: Right. That's right.
[00:23:42] Lucas Matiello: But for you to do that, then you're... For you to be open to someone's, like, hey. I really like how you're different. So it's one of those things. It's not good or bad, but you have to be okay with the potential loss or rejection and being okay with saying, okay. That's fine. And it's valid. But it may not be a fit. Like, for... In my industry, we talk about personal development. We go into that. I believe that is a major component of speaking confidence. But I have had clients say, look. I don't want... I don't need to... Why do you need to know about my personal past? Why do you need to know my history? Just give me the tips and tricks.
[00:24:16] Lucas Matiello: And when that comes up, I'm like, look. To be frank with you, we're not a good fit to work together. Because the people that are open to it love it because that's where the breakthrough results come. It's not the body posture or how to put a message together. Watch YouTube videos. You'll figure that out. Yeah. The personal side matters the most.
[00:24:32] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. No. I do think that I felt that you and I are both part of strategic coach and at dinner sort of, like, sharing, and that is one of the advantages of being part of, you know, an organization like strategic coach where you're... It isn't... You know, the the contents that's taught in the classroom is good, but the connections, you know, we're having dinner, having wine. It's like, we're all sharing, you know, two other guys, you know, that were there. That was a cool night of, you know, just sort of, wow. I'll share what what I kinda felt was, like, these guys are humor... These guys are human. Mhmm.
[00:25:04] Dustin Serviss: And it was like, you know, you build up and you're in this room where everyone's, you know, decent income earners. You're like, man, all these guys are superheroes. That's what I think. And it's like, I... You know, I love to be around them, and I feel like I can run with the pack, but at the same time, you're kinda like, wow. Like, these guys are next level. But then when you actually have a conversation and share some carpaccio and, like, you know, tomatoes and bocconcini. It's kinda... No. Everyone is human. So I do wanna segue to what strategic coach has done for you in, you know, in this last...
[00:25:37] Dustin Serviss: You know, I used the last year, the last six months of breakthroughs of what tools and things you've learned about yourself, and maybe just give, you know, listener a context if they're not familiar with strategic coach of, like, why it's important or why you maybe joined or whatever.
[00:25:52] Lucas Matiello: Yeah. So strategic coach, I joined one of my closest friends, Jay. He's been pushing me for six years to join. He goes, if you don't get value from it, I'll pay for it myself. So huge risk reversal for me. I will say that was two years prior when I signed up. I don't know if the offer still stood, but it's it at one at one point. But it's just, you know, joining a community of people. What's interesting though, I had some very big hesitations around it because I'm looking at going four one day quarterly sessions. I come from the training world and I'm like, okay, I need two days minimum. What's the tactics? What's the marketing plan?
[00:26:28] Lucas Matiello: They're not addressing any of that. What's the tools? How am I gonna build the business? And if you're going in with the mindset of what's the tactics that I'm gonna get, you will be very disappointed. It's all about you and uncovering your blocks and elevating your thinking. But he also said to me, one, if you don't get value, I'll pay for it for you. But two, it's a minimum three year commitment. He goes, you need to be in there for three years minimum. And I'm like, what if it sucks, though? And he's like, here's the problem. He goes, and I have seen that play through now.
[00:26:56] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. So what is sort of one big thing that you've come away with that you didn't foresee envisioning when you went into the program that you now are anchoring kind of on in your head as this is who I am or this is the direction I'm going?
[00:27:11] Lucas Matiello: Yep. Absolutely. So I'm gonna give you two, and I'll tell you why. One's personal, one's professional. I'll start off with a personal one because I find that interesting. You mentioned that about the group and the people, and these are all successful people in the room. Not one person was wearing a suit, so we kind of touched that. Yeah. Who's wearing a suit? Nobody's wearing a suit.
[00:27:27] Dustin Serviss: Not the one person. Yeah.
[00:27:28] Lucas Matiello: Maybe one. I don't know. Maybe maybe... It might have been one, but there is... Yeah. Maybe a corporate person. But out of thirty people, most people are, you know, jeans, polo shirt, whatever. I remember the first session I went there, I was wearing shorts and a polo, and that one guy was trying to chirpy a little bit. I'm like, hey. Relax. It's summer. It's summer. I'm from BC. Yeah. It was me and Steve Benedetti were wearing shorts, and this this part is like, oh, look at these two shorts. I was like, if you're jealous, put on some shorts, man.
[00:27:55] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. Hate it. Don't be mad at me that you live at the center of the universe and shrug.
[00:27:59] Lucas Matiello: Exactly. But the one thing... I don't know if you remember. The first session, when we started, we had to introduce ourselves. It was name, what you do, and family status. And and I was sitting there going, why the hell do you care about what my relationships and family status is? And so I was at the end. I was at by the door, and there was... I think it was, like, thirty... Around thirty people. And I watched every person go, and they're like, hey. So and so, married for so many years. This number of kids. And it's, hey. So and so, married this many years. So and so, these many kids. And I'm sitting there going, holy shit. Everyone has...
[00:28:34] Lucas Matiello: Everyone's married with kids here. And it got to me, and I'm like, I was number... I was, like, the twenty eighth. It was second to last.
[00:28:42] Dustin Serviss: Okay.
[00:28:43] Lucas Matiello: And I'm like, I don't have kids. I'm American. Like, what the fuck? That's the one thing that's... And so I stood up. I'm like, hey. The takeaway that I've got here is to be in this group. I need to get married and have kids. You know? And I never laughed. And every single person... And it was really about the culture. I go, these are all people that have... Yes, they have a successful business, but success is not just the business. Whereas I know there's other programs like revenue. This is... How's your family life? How's your situation? And so that was the first win. And the second was the ten x ten x thinking, which the book
[00:29:16] Lucas Matiello: actually ten x is easier than two x from Dan, which Jake got when he gave me a copy of that. I devoured it halfway through the program. And so for me, going from individuals to corporate training, that's my ten x. So that alone is worth it for me.
[00:29:29] Dustin Serviss: That alone, I'm done. I'm like, that's it. Yeah. And so, listener, the context of what ten x, you know, he kinda alluded to it. Ben Hardy was an author, and he cowrote it with Dan Sullivan, who's the founder of Strategic Coach. But what Lucas just said is... Basically, the summary is, okay. You're mapping out a direction for your business, and you're trying to increase your revenue twenty five percent a year, and you're, like, kinda thinking... And, you know, you're like, well, maybe we'll do a little more marketing, or maybe I'll up my posts, or maybe I'll get four new clients, or maybe I'll increase my...
[00:30:00] Dustin Serviss: You know, in our world, let's increase our investment account size or life insurance. You know, we'll get... What's... No. Just wipe all that stuff away. Map out what would your business, like, be at ten x. So call it revenue. Call it free time. Call it... You know, it doesn't have to be revenue, but it's, like, revenue's easy one. Ten x my revenue without giving yourself restrictions because immediately, the brain wants to, like, shit on it. It's No. If the revenue was that, what likely would have to happen? And giving it a little bit away, but there's a lot more, is that
[00:30:32] Dustin Serviss: eighty percent probably of the things you're doing are gonna have to go away. They're gone. And you're gonna keep the twenty percent that are best, and that's for you to figure out what the twenty percent best is. But you think, wow. Eighty percent of the things that I'm doing are gone? Well, heck. You got a lot of free time now. So now you kinda... Your brain kinda just starts re... Know, maybe you're replacing the gears or whatever, you know, metaphor you wanna use, but it's like, now you get your wheels turning. So good for you on sort of figuring that out. And so how has that been going, or are you just starting
[00:31:06] Dustin Serviss: to implement some of that action?
[00:31:08] Lucas Matiello: Oh, yeah. No. I'm definitely doing it. Like, I did... So today is Thursday. On Monday and Tuesday, I did a corporate training. So part of ten x... And by the way, that was a great summary of the concept of ten x is you said two x that you whittled it down very succinctly. One thing with the ten x plan is that you don't shut down... You don't have to necessarily shut down the existing business because that's the fear. It's, like, I can't go to zero overnight. It's like, you don't have to shut down, but maybe you reduce the marketing efforts around the previous, you know, the two x...
[00:31:36] Lucas Matiello: We'll call it two x business and then increase your marketing efforts on the new ten x. So what I have done is I've launched ads now specifically for corporate training. That's my main focus in terms of actively investing in promotion marketing to build that side up.
[00:31:53] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. No. That's... And I think it could... You know, on the life side for a lot of people, you know, we go around the room and share ten x moments. You do hear people say things like, you know, time off. You know, we'll have to take in zero time off to ten x your time off. You really just... You know, it's one day or two days. You know? It's like whatever Yeah. An hour. So, you know, that could be it. It could be as simple as your relationship, your home life, or your view of the stress level you carry. In, you know, in my book, the main premise is you're always thinking there's alligators swimming around. And so you're...
[00:32:26] Dustin Serviss: Well, my my revenue is three hundred times what it was twenty years ago, but there's still the same alligators hanging around. So are they the... Do they still have to be here? And so it's okay. Well, maybe I can get a... You could do a little subtraction of things you're considering, and all of a sudden, you're ten x just by getting rid of some of that baggage. Oh, yeah. Lucas, do you have sort of one final thought for us in your world, something you're most excited about, something in your corporate training? Like, again, your corporate training on Monday, Tuesday, or recently where people were
[00:32:57] Dustin Serviss: having big breakthroughs and you've sort of noticed a pattern in what they're realizing or material things. You saw someone, you know, two months ago, and now you met them now, and they're, like, you know, totally different person as it, you know, applies to their confidence speaking or running meetings?
[00:33:17] Lucas Matiello: Yeah. So... Okay. I like that point there. The, you know, the one thing that I'm seeing... The biggest... There's a bunch of different ones, but the biggest... Call it, like, the linchpin that just unlocks everything is... If I was looking at it from a standpoint of what is hurting most corporations, it definitely is lacking confident communication, leadership for sure. But what's behind it? What's beneath it? It's it's one thing to say it, but that is another... How can we identify a real problem? The biggest problem that I consistently see is the imposter syndrome. And the imposter syndrome is, if you're not familiar with it, it's a feeling
[00:33:52] Lucas Matiello: that you're not good enough, that you're not deserving of the spot, and it comes up a lot. For example, if people are recently promoted to a new position, they're like, well... And how it manifests a lot with my clients and how I came on to this is that people get promoted. They're now expected. They're in a leadership position. Overnight, you're now expected to be a confident speaker. And it's Right. Why? It's like, I was just here. I was a manager or a lower level employee. And now I'm in a more leadership position. And now I have to speak up and lead my team or talk to my team. And they're like, well, I'm not a confident speaker. It's...
[00:34:24] Lucas Matiello: Yeah. Because in in the past, you just had to do the job. And then you get promoted based on merit. And now you're in a new environment, you don't have the skills. And so that's where people, they fear public speaking or it gets brought up because they go, I'm not at the level that's expected. Well, you haven't done any training to get there. So the impostor syndrome, typically, people come up. It's comparing themselves to others, and they say, you know, these other people do it better. And so if I speak in public, I could be exposed. It's not good enough, and it's going to be counterproductive for for my career. I'll get demoted.
[00:34:54] Lucas Matiello: I'll get fired. Whatever it is. But the problem is that people typically go towards experience, education, results, and you can't manufacture experience overnight. Right? You can't gain results you can work on, but education, it's just different for everyone. And so problem is that people always compare themselves to others, and they're looking at it going, I'm not good enough. It's always a negative reflection of themselves. They have this. I don't have that. Therefore, I'm not as good. But the one thing to bring it back to your question that I've seen and even last week, there was a gentleman. He was... That's not giving away too much info.
[00:35:32] Lucas Matiello: He was a sous chef in a organization. And he'd been promoted to chef, but he had avoided getting the promotion for years. And it's not that he wasn't good enough. The team was saying, we want to give this to you. And he's going, no. That's not me. You know why? Because he had a belief. So day one, he's... I can't speak in public. I've avoided it for sixteen years. I can't do this. And so when we were... By the end of it, he was speaking. He was loving. He was smiling. He was going, ah, he was, like, on a high. It was crazy to see it. But the thing that I'm seeing, the biggest breakthrough is that people need to adjust how they see themselves.
[00:36:10] Lucas Matiello: It's the self image. It's not about gaining experience overnight. It's not about changing your education levels. It's not about even getting more clients. It all comes down to how do you see yourself. So if you feel like you're an imposter, that's... It's the personal development work. No one's ever gonna come by and say, you are now an expert in your industry. It's something that you have to generate inside. And like you mentioned, the alligators. Maybe it is about getting some of those alligators. But the alligators could be that you're not good enough, it's the past, you know, you've been embarrassed, you've had self esteem issues.
[00:36:45] Lucas Matiello: Everyone else has self esteem issues. We all take hits. You know, we go through, so whether it's school, family life, friends, relationships, we take these hits. But it's about seeing it and looking at it. And it's a concept of changing the self image, but also changing the mirror that you see yourself. When you do, that is the key to quickly elevate and achieve your goals.
[00:37:06] Dustin Serviss: Thanks a lot, Lucas. That was super special. Where can people find more information on what you're up to?
[00:37:13] Lucas Matiello: Level up living dot com. Go to level up living dot com. And the new website that's gonna be launching soon, so it might be when you see this or you hear this, it is level five leaders, which is my ten x plan actually, creating a new brand specifically for corporate training and leadership develop... Development called level five leaders. So it is up. You can book calls there right now, but it will be tweaked and improved in the next couple months here. But, yeah, either level up living or level five leaders. Come check it out, connect, and happy to chat.
[00:37:42] Dustin Serviss: That's awesome. You've been extremely modest during the podcast. You're a beast, and I appreciate all that I've learned from you in, the strategic coach meetings. And I do appreciate what you shared today. Thanks.
[00:37:53] Lucas Matiello: Appreciate you having me on. Thank you, Dustin.