How to Unlock Your Instinctive Strengths with David Kolbe (#169) — Transcript
Updated: Oct 26
THE PICTURE OF WEALTH · EPISODE 169
Why do capable people approach the same task so differently? David Kolbe joins Dustin Serviss to discuss instinctive strengths, hiring and building situations in which people can do their best work.
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This transcript was generated from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. It may contain transcription or speaker-attribution errors. Refer to the recording for exact wording.
Chapters
[00:00:00] Put your strengths in the right situation
[00:05:04] Hiring as a business begins to scale
[00:09:46] Start with what the role actually needs
[00:14:31] Questioning assumptions about an assistant
[00:19:56] Differences in how people finish work
[00:24:53] Preparing for a leap outside your comfort zone
[00:33:21] Making the method repeatable
[00:38:23] Appreciating differences in personal partnerships
[00:47:07] Complementary strengths turn ideas into reality
Guest & resources
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Transcript
[00:00:00] David Kolbe: It's what will work for you. So the trick isn't to become more like other people. The trick is to figure out how do you put yourself in situations where your strengths are the ones that are most important.
[00:00:10] Dustin Serviss: Now for any entrepreneur who's had a business and hired staff, getting the right staff is... It's an art. It's not necessarily as easy as meeting someone. I like them. Let's get to work. It takes a combination of patience, a little bit of intuition, and a little bit of, I'll say, finding that right person and also knowing enough about yourself in searching for that right person. And today's guest, David Kolbe, is the son of the original founder of the Kolby index, which I've used for... I did my first Kolby index in two thousand seven, but I've also used it with my team, and I've also used it with, hiring.
[00:00:53] Dustin Serviss: And recently, we used it in a round of hiring to sift a hundred and twenty six resumes. Now I didn't put everyone through the Colby, but David and I meander through a whole bunch of things, and and it really was awesome to have access to someone at this level around this topic, which is not, I won't say a sexy topic or a fun topic, but it does become sexy and interesting when you start looking at how to analyze yourself to then go more well equipped into a meeting to actually help the people you're hiring find a position that they like. In, you know, the world today, time is at a premium. And when you hire somebody and they aren't able
[00:01:41] Dustin Serviss: to contribute to the job, to the time that they're spending in your company in a place that they find exciting, they would then quit and get disinterested, and it also provides friction and distraction for the entrepreneur. So long winded introduction on this episode, but a very, very interesting topic. Thanks, Dave, for coming on the picture of wealth today. I'm excited to chat with you.
[00:02:04] David Kolbe: Happy to be here. I'm excited too. So I have... My first
[00:02:08] Dustin Serviss: experience with Kolbe was a long time ago, but I have a situation. So many of the listenership is, business owner, deals with staff. And about four years ago, I met with a client, and I said, you guys gotta scale up. Just hire people. And they basically laughed me out of the restaurant, and they still bugged the shit out of me today about that comment that I made to them because in their business, no one would ever be able to fill their shoes. And we all laugh about it, so if they're listening, that's gonna be... It's PG. But can you help me understand the journey of people that use Kolbe? And I don't wanna take it away too much.
[00:02:47] Dustin Serviss: But help me understand maybe a two minute origin of how you got to what you're doing now, but also what most business owners are coming to Kolbe to seek more information on.
[00:02:58] David Kolbe: Sure. And I'll start with the second part, and then we'll back into more of the history of Kolbe. I think most of the time when people come to us, it's because they want to find out more about what makes them and the people around them tick and how to tap into the strengths that they have. Usually, it's because somebody's told them about us. But the key thing that we bring at that first in entry level is an understanding of who you are at your core, and it's something that is great about you. It's something that you were probably born with. We don't see that it changes over time.
[00:03:37] David Kolbe: And when you learn about it, you can really tap into it more easily rather than fight against it because way too often, we see people sing on their perceived weaknesses. So how can I do something better? And we help them figure out, no. This is the way you're meant to operate. Do more of that. And, sure, address those things that, you know, it's not your sweet spot. And how can you, a, avoid them, b, deal with them effectively, but you shouldn't be doing it all the time. So that's the... What people are looking for. How we got here, the company was actually founded by my mom forty nine years ago.
[00:04:16] David Kolbe: We're hitting our fiftieth anniversary this fall. Going back even further than that, her dad is a guy named Eldon Wunderlich, and he created something called the Wunderlich personnel test, which is a short form intelligence test, essentially, that was made for businesses to use in hiring and selection. So she grew up seeing that as the family business, psychometric testing, but she knew, sure, intelligence is important, but we all know smart, driven people who don't succeed for whatever reason. Or they succeed in one area, and then they shift to something else and things change. And she wanted to figure out what...
[00:04:56] David Kolbe: What's that other component that's going on? And that's what she figured out, and it's called conation, and that's what we measure.
[00:05:04] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. No. So what we're talking about is leverage for business owners. So said business owner is scaling, gotta add people or team, or you're gonna get your manager to hire somebody, and it is a big task. It is a lot of work. We recently added a... An admin level support person who... She's way more than that. But when we put that out, we got a hundred and twenty six resumes. So I don't know if the times have changed, but this is twenty twenty five. And so how do you sift that? How do you even get through that? And, again, your tool isn't sifting that volume, but where we used your tool was when we got to three.
[00:05:42] Dustin Serviss: And it was k, and we used the right fit. And, again, I don't wanna steal what we're talking about, but then break that down because, again, I don't wanna steal this from you. There is a sweet spot for the person. It is not a value to the person you're hiring if you hire them simply to put them into a role if they're not in their sweet spot. That doesn't do anybody because it's short term. So help me understand what that sweet spot looks like or how you find it.
[00:06:12] David Kolbe: Yeah. So conation, broadly speaking, there are three parts of the human mind, like, really broadly speaking. Two parts we're familiar with. I mentioned intelligence test. That's the cognitive part of the mind. It's how smart you are. It's what you've learned. And we're all familiar with all kinds of intelligence tests. Everything from IQ test to just a spelling test in fourth grade or something. And that's important in business and other places. What does somebody know and how smart are they at figuring things out? The second part of the human mind, and again, this is very familiar to
[00:06:45] David Kolbe: us, is the emotional or what we call the affective part of the mind. And there are scores of affective tests, things like the Myers Briggs or MBTI, strengths finder predictive index, DISC, a whole bunch of them. That measures a person's values, their preferences, their desires. And depending on the assessment, it looks at different things, extrovert, introvert, that kind of stuff. And that's important, and we all know how those factors will affect somebody at work. The conative part of the mind is the way we take action, and that's what we measure. So it's not how you think or feel, but it's the way you do.
[00:07:24] David Kolbe: And we've identified four what we call action modes that drive the way people take action. And they we each have a, as you're describing, a sweet spot in each of those four action modes. So the trick is to figure out how do I... Let's just start with the person. How do I get to operate in my sweet spot? So a quick example, follow through is one of the... One of these four modes. It's how we deal with systems and structure. So for me, I'm at one end of the spectrum. I'm very open ended, adaptable. I can start lots of things and pivot. I don't have to finish everything I start. Somebody at the other end of that spectrum is very organized.
[00:08:05] David Kolbe: They create systems and structure. If there are already a bunch of things going on, they see patterns and they create patterns and structures and flowcharts. So neither one of those is better or worse inherently. But if I have my strength, I need to find a position for myself where I get to use that strength most of the time. It's not that I can't create systems. Of course, I can. That's just not my natural way of doing things. So that's starting with me. But then as you described it in terms of an employer, if you've got a role... Now look. Some roles are really open ended. There are lots of different ways to do it.
[00:08:41] David Kolbe: But if you've got a role that's all about systems and structure and following those processes, you need somebody toward the end of the spectrum away from me. Don't hire David Colby to be that person. Doesn't matter if I'm smart enough. Doesn't matter if I've got the requisite experience. I'm not likely to be a good fit in that role over the long term.
[00:09:01] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. So I see your numbers on the screen. So, listener, we're gonna get into the numbers. But, Dave, I'm a seven seven three three. So Yep. We're a little bit different, but similar on the front end. So Yep. And I... While you're talking, I'm thinking of a key... Like, a combination lock clicking together when you get it right. And it doesn't mean the numbers are completely opposite. Is that right? Like, when I just mentioned seven seven three three, then I should be looking for a three three seven seven because there's different rules. There's different skills.
[00:09:32] Dustin Serviss: So help us understand if someone's listening, and there's many different listeners are gonna be at different journeys seeking different people. How, like, how do they sift, or how do they lock in to what they're looking for?
[00:09:46] David Kolbe: Well, I'll start with kinda what they're looking for. The key is to focus on the role that, you know, that you're filling if it's an open position and what drives success in that role. So it's not about just thinking, well... So I'm like this, and I want somebody like me, so I want somebody who matches my numbers. Or I want somebody to do all the other things and not what I do, so I want somebody who's the opposite. You're gonna get yourself into trouble because you're just... It's not the right analysis to use. Think about the job, what the requirements are. If somebody does something well in this role, how do they do it?
[00:10:22] David Kolbe: The process that we build is actually really straightforward. We have software that helps people do it. You mentioned it before. It's RightFit is the name of the software, and it just asks you questions. And you do basically a conative profile of that job. And then you know when you get that and you get your own Kolbe result, we build what we call a range of success. Again, it's that kind of job profile, and then you just compare candidates against it. So as you were talking about having three people, you can look at, do they fit the job that we're filling? And if there's a big mismatch,
[00:10:57] David Kolbe: they're not likely to be successful in that role over the long term. Again, I'm using my language a little carefully because since Kolbe isn't about what they can or can't do, sure, they might step in and be super motivated and have enough experience. They do it for six months. It's great. And then eight months in or nine, whatever the time frame is, you see some cracks start to form. And I see this all the time in working with clients. They think, David, you were wrong to say it only need to be this. I hired somebody different, and they're doing great. Like, look. I would be happy to be wrong because that's gonna make you more successful.
[00:11:33] David Kolbe: But talk to me in a few months, and let's see what's going on. And then a few months later, they're like, oh, yeah, man. I should have followed your advice. It it went sideways.
[00:11:42] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it... The process for... So, again, I've been part of strategic coach for a long time in the program currently right now and been around Colby. I had my first Colby done in two thousand seven, and I tried to do it again this year, but it actually... It doesn't change, and it locks you out. And you can't Yep.
[00:11:59] David Kolbe: You
[00:11:59] Dustin Serviss: can't change it. So all those years through, I've had my team do it. This was the first time, though, we've done the right fit process where it's like, you're... Maybe ex... Maybe explain the right fit process more of... I'm trying not to put your words in your mouth, but, like, for the entrepreneur themselves Yep. To get clear on what they actually want. And often in... At Service Wealth, we deal with a lot of business partners. And so you have two people that think they know what they want. And they've talked about, we need someone, but in their heads, it's it's different.
[00:12:36] David Kolbe: It may be different. Yeah. Yeah. We see that a lot, and that's one of the trickiest things to do. So, again, with the process, we have people answer questions, so we call it the Colby b index. It's all about... Or sorry, the c index. It's all about a direct supervisor or other evaluator answering questions about the job that they're filling. And it asks them in a way that it doesn't... It's not obvious. It's really about somebody who's doing well in this job, what kinds of actions are they taking. So you answer the questions, and it can be really straightforward if it's really just one person, the entrepreneur or an office
[00:13:15] David Kolbe: manager who's the direct supervisor, whoever it is, they answer the questions. You enter that person's Colby a index result also in the software builds the job profile. But what you're mentioning is this scenario where, yeah, there are really two people who this person's gonna answer to. Maybe it's two business partners and it's an assistant that supports both of them or the office manager that, you know, runs the business, but you've got two partners running it. That's where when both of those people do the Colby C index, a lot of times, you get them back and they look very different.
[00:13:49] David Kolbe: And, sure, you could just put that information into the software and build a range, but I always tell clients, you need to stop at that point. Be... And you guys need to have a discussion. The two of you need to talk about what's going on. Now it might be that one person maybe just doesn't understand the role. And I've actually seen that a lot of times. I was working with the CEO of a company, roughly a hundred person company, and he was hiring a new executive assistant because his executive assistant was getting promoted, and she was gonna be the, essentially, the number three person in the company. And so they both did this Colby c index
[00:14:31] David Kolbe: on the job of his executive assistant, and they were very different. And to his credit, he said right away, well, I wanna know what... Why did you answer the way you answered to the woman who is being promoted? And she said, look, I know you think you want somebody. Basically, he... His looked like he wanted somebody the exact opposite of him. So he's more like me and follow through, very open ended and adaptable. And he was saying, I want somebody like a nine in follow through as opposed to his two. And she said, I know you think you want that, but the role isn't... That's just not the role. You want somebody who accommodates your crazy
[00:15:12] David Kolbe: little chaotic. You you don't finish things. There are always loose ends all over the place. You need somebody to accommodate that. If it was somebody who only insisted, like, they just pushed for systems and follow the process, you would drive each other so crazy. I don't think it would work. And he listened to her, and he said, yeah. You're right. That totally makes sense. And he just looked at me and he said... And I knew what he was gonna say. And it's what I was gonna tell him, frankly, before we had the conversation, but we needed to have the conversation. He said, let's not use mine. Let's use hers. I'm like, yep. I'm tracking.
[00:15:45] David Kolbe: That's what
[00:15:46] Dustin Serviss: we're gonna do.
[00:15:47] David Kolbe: So in that case, when we had that discussion, he was essentially wrong. So he thought he knew what the job was about. But when you talk to the person who was actually doing that job, and their results were different, she was able to articulate why she had a better view of what was going on, and he convinced her. Probably more often, though, it's not that one or the other is wrong. It's just they have different expectations of that role. So you have two business owners, and let's say, it's again like an office manager kind of function. They may demand two different things of that office manager.
[00:16:23] Dustin Serviss: Mhmm.
[00:16:24] David Kolbe: Well, what do you do then? Best case scenario, you get them to agree, but they have to really agree. What I see happen sometimes is they say they agree. Oh, okay. I'll compromise on this and you come... And... Okay. Great. We're gonna do it. And then they just go back to what their preexisting expectations were. Right. That is not gonna... They're not doing each other a favor, and they're definitely not doing a favor to the person coming into that role because they're just gonna revert to, no. It needs to be like this. And then the other person's saying, no. It needs to be the opposite of that. Right.
[00:16:56] David Kolbe: Even if that person is good at the job, they're gonna quit if they're any good because that's not fun.
[00:17:01] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. Can you expand on... So, again, listener, imagine these... There's four bars and there's four things, and David, we're gonna get through them by the end. But, you know, some people are good at certain things. That's where they are, and they're performing their sweet spot. Yeah. And it's sustainable for a long time. So you do have what they call the Colby a, which is, hey. I'm not looking to hire somebody. I'm just... I've got a team member, and I wanna work better with... Use that example. I have an assistant. I wanna work better with her. We're both gonna do our Kolbe a, and holy shit, they're not looking like they're good.
[00:17:35] Dustin Serviss: So the context, help us understand the measurements and why it's so important for somebody to... And, again, listener, I haven't spent hours on Kolbe. I've spent probably an hour, maybe two hours over the course of a long time researching, but I understand you guys have done a great job with your little videos. And when you get your survey, it's like, hey. This is what to watch out for. This is... But help us help us get clear if we're two existing people working together and we do our things and they don't look like they are opposite.
[00:18:08] David Kolbe: So the reason to do it when you're working with somebody is then the two of you understand this component, this dimension of what drives the way you work that you didn't really fully understand before. You may have had a sense of it, but oftentimes, we attribute it to the wrong thing. Like, usually, people will think it's more connected to that affective emotional side. So then if people are really different... So we'll stick with the follow through because that's the one I've described now. So you and I are very different in terms of the follow through, the systems and structure.
[00:18:41] David Kolbe: So if we were working together in whatever roles, just the two of us are working together, and you're more... You create systems and you stick with them. You drive for closure. Love systems. The things that I don't finish, you would look at me and you might start making value judgments. It might be, he's an idiot. He doesn't finish what he starts. Like, that's not smart at all. You might think, he just... He's not committed, like, in an affective level. Like, he doesn't believe in what we're doing because... And, frankly, it's because if I believe in it, I'm going to act a particular way. So you think, well, other people are the same.
[00:19:18] David Kolbe: If they're... If they believe in it, they're gonna finish all this stuff. In this case, it's not driven by those kinds of problems. Now it can be a problem. If you and I are very different and we need to work together and we're pushing back on each other about this approach to systems and structure, if you don't understand what's going on, it's gonna be really hard to fix the problem. So what we see a lot of times with this as an example is business partners who just, basically they try to pound into the other person's head. You need to understand this. It's just that you haven't learned something yet.
[00:19:56] David Kolbe: So I'm gonna tell you this again until you hear it. It's not about not hearing it. It's about I heard you. I still operate this way. Once you understand what's going on, then it can be like, oh, like, you can think, okay. Now I get it. It's not that David doesn't think this project is important. It's just that he's not the guy to wrap up all the loose ends. So now... And here's the thing. It's not only is your individual index not a better or worse kind of thing. It's just you are who you are. Sometimes it's really good for people who are very different to work together because you cover more bases.
[00:20:32] David Kolbe: You kind of collaborate by adding to each other. So with the two of us, you're gonna create systems, but I'm gonna keep them from becoming too bureaucratic and slowing us down too much. So we might be a great team for that, but we're only a great team for that if we get past what could be a conflict because we're so different. The other side of it is if we're both the same in one of the four action modes or all the way across the board, we will usually work very comfortably together because we're... We take the same approach. So for you and I, we both initiate in fact finder. That's that first number.
[00:21:10] David Kolbe: So it's about gathering and sharing information. Both of us do research, get a lot of information, tell other people about it. And that's generally great because it's easy for the two of us then to work together. But here's the downside using that one as the example. We've done enough research. Like, we just need to move forward, but the two of us by nature will do more even though it's not necessary. It's not adding to anything. And because we are the same, we'll feed into each other. Like, you'll do a little more research, and you'll walk into my office. Oh, David. Man, I just read this. You gotta read this thing.
[00:21:46] David Kolbe: And instead of me saying, you know what? We have enough. We need to move forward. My natural thing is, oh, that is so cool. Yeah. Send me that link. I'm gonna go send... Spend another half hour on it.
[00:21:57] Dustin Serviss: Fact check it.
[00:21:58] David Kolbe: So, again, it's not a better or worse because there are positives to both. There are downsides to both. You just have to figure out what do we need. And overall, on a team, you do need diversity of these strengths. If you have everybody, like, with the fact finder we were talking about, everybody's like you and me getting more and more information and sharing it around, things move way too slowly. So you want to have some people who are at the other end of the spectrum there who simplify. Hey. We've got the three most important facts. Now we can move forward.
[00:22:32] Dustin Serviss: Right. So maybe segue us into the third metric. So we've talked about the first one is fact finding. The second one is follow through. Yep. So research, then you've got head of process and systems. The third one, you and I are arguably in the two opposite category. I'm a three, you're a seven. Help us understand how different we are.
[00:22:55] David Kolbe: Yeah. The next one is quick start. So it's about dealing with risk and unknowns. So your strength is all about knowing what works well and sticking with it. It is preventing chaos from happening where it doesn't need to happen. And most of the time, chaos doesn't need to happen. So... And also with your combination. So, you know, I mentioned the chaos thing with your systematic structured side. That's also where you will bring that's where you will bring order out of chaos. If there's all kinds of stuff going on that isn't in a system, you will find a system and a pattern, and you will make it more rational and understandable in that way.
[00:23:35] David Kolbe: But with your three in quick start, you're able to keep with what works. So you keep going down the right path, basically, and prevent these crazy, like, all kinds of risk taking that isn't serving a purpose. Right. I'm on the other end of that spectrum, but my... So I... All of these are strengths. And, frankly, the ones that seem... The the ones where people get less credit for it being a strength are the ones where the numbers are low. So for you, that quick start, a lot of times people might think, man, Dustin, why don't you just go for it more often? Why... You're always just
[00:24:12] Dustin Serviss: I think that about myself sometimes.
[00:24:14] David Kolbe: Yeah. But it's what will work for you. So the trick isn't to become more like other people. The trick is to figure out how do you put yourself in situations where your strengths are the ones that are most important. And it's also... Look. I'm talking about the conative part, but we have a richer mind than just one one area. So Right. Engage, like, the cognitive, the intelligence side. If you're doing strategic planning, which is a natural thing for you to do with your fact file and with your fact finder and follow through, the smarts that you have, you can fill in some boxes and some sections where it's, oh, at this stage in our development,
[00:24:53] David Kolbe: we're gonna have to take some risks. Like, we're gonna have to take a leap without knowing what the answer is gonna be. Right. And you can prepare yourself for that. So you're still... You're doing it in a fact finder follow through way, but then that risk, that leap doesn't seem quite as risky. It's not as much of an experiment. You've controlled the variables you can control. But your cognitive piece is I am gonna be uncomfortable here, and I'm just gonna have to suck it
[00:25:20] Dustin Serviss: up. Yep.
[00:25:21] David Kolbe: You can also say this is where if we were business partners, we'd get together and we'd fill in David's name. Hey. In that phase where it is more, we're gonna have to take a leap and we won't have all the answers, David might need to drive the process there a little bit. Right. And I'm gonna have to trust him. Yeah. And the trust that's getting to the other part of mine, not affective, when that's a difficult thing. But if you've never worked with me before, it's a little harder for you to trust me. So there... You wanna bring all that in. But the... So, yeah, the quick start and my strength in it is in taking
[00:25:52] David Kolbe: more risks, experimenting, saying, well, yeah, I don't know what's gonna happen, but we're gonna try it out and learn from it. So, yeah, we we balance each other because we're at opposite ends of the spectrum.
[00:26:03] Dustin Serviss: And I'm glad you brought that up because I, like I said, I am part of a coach where a lot of the guys in the program or women are quick start like you, seven plus.
[00:26:13] David Kolbe: Yep.
[00:26:14] Dustin Serviss: Very sale... Like, again, maybe help me if I'm saying this wrong, but, like, sales driven. And so there is a little bit... Like, I do feel kinda... Am I supposed to be in this group? I'm not, like, hard sales, but I sell different or I sell process and that, I guess
[00:26:29] David Kolbe: Absolutely.
[00:26:29] Dustin Serviss: Helping me understand myself of you sell the sort of stability or the, like, process and chaos mitigation.
[00:26:38] David Kolbe: So number one, you're not crazy. So we've been working with Coach a long time and seen a lot of data, and you're absolutely right. More of the people are the initiating quick starts. But you are absolutely supposed to be there because being a successful entrepreneur isn't about doing things one way. So, yeah, more often, a lot of entrepreneurs, especially founder kind of entrepreneurs, start from scratch and they just take a flyer and maybe they don't know what they're doing. But I've worked with so many people who have results like yours. It's that their process is different. So the way you sell is by becoming an expert
[00:27:16] David Kolbe: and providing absolutely the best customer service and follow-up for all of your clients. You are not going to big deal them about some... Something you can't really back up. You're not gonna start telling them, oh, well, I can do this and I can do that. You are a... And this isn't about the affect, but you could be a really outgoing big personality person, but your... The way you take action, which means in this case, selling is taking action, is about knowing your stuff. That's the fact finder. And the follow through is where the systems and structure mean amazing customer service.
[00:27:51] David Kolbe: Balls don't get dropped by you and in your organization because you lead it. You're gonna make sure that doesn't happen. So it does mean that you would lead an organization that would tend to grow, and not always, but tend to grow more slowly. That doesn't mean your top... That doesn't mean there's a ceiling on what you do. You might grow more slowly, but you get that geometric effect, and you can just keep on growing whereas other people might go really fast and then they burn out. Right. And that's an example, an organization. So this isn't just person driven. This is why it's important to have people with different skills and talents.
[00:28:28] David Kolbe: An organization that grows really fast because they've got what we think of as a traditional salesperson who's selling the sizzle, if there's no stake there where there was a stake there one time, but next time the steak tastes terrible, they're gonna grow fast and then they're gonna lose all their clients because they aren't delivering what they promised. Again, that's not you. That's not you personally. And because of that, I would imagine that's not an organization that you run.
[00:28:55] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. It's a little bit eerie how you describe that because that's that's... You've done this a long time. So we've talked about the quick start, and now we've got the final number. We're both the same threes. What is the final silo?
[00:29:08] David Kolbe: The final one is implementer, and I wish we could go back and change the name, but we've had them for a long time. It's not about implementer as in the way we implement or carry things out. That's really more the follow through. This last one is all about the three-dimensional tangible part of taking action. So it comes from the sense of using tools and implements. So somebody who's a big number seven eight nine ten in implementer is literally hands on. They build. They construct solutions. So you will see them doing presentations where they use props and build things. And even presentations, like, you and I are more likely to get up in
[00:29:50] David Kolbe: front of people and use spreadsheets or a visual up on a slide that's projected. Initiating implementers are way more likely to have props and physical and three-dimensional things. They could be... Like, if they're a doctor, they might be an orthopedic surgeon because it's all about physically going in there, cutting bones, putting new things together as opposed to an internist that may be more about looking at data and numbers and figuring out, hey, I'm gonna diagnose you more through some of that stuff. And I'm totally generalizing. I know internist also touch you and feel your body to make a difference.
[00:30:25] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. No. I get it.
[00:30:26] David Kolbe: Like, a research doctor is way less likely to be an initiating implementer than an orthopedic surgeon. So that's the one at the other end of the spectrum where you and I are is about imagining, envisioning. We don't need to build something to take action. We typically don't. Again, we isn't about what we can or can't do. We can, but we typically don't do things that way.
[00:30:50] Dustin Serviss: I can't have a podcast episode without talking about AI. And since you're talking about implementers and, like, hands on stuff, is that changing? Is that chi... Is that final silo changing where implementers are getting a little bit more AI, or is it... It... Those will be the last adopters of something like AI?
[00:31:12] David Kolbe: So it depends. Here's the thing. I think for it to start... And this isn't exactly how you put it, but it... For AI to start replacing what implementers do most naturally, It's really gotta integrate with robotics, I think, because since they are all about physically putting things together, if it's AI just... Oh, an AI agent that I use online, that's maybe more about fact finder stuff or follow through Right. Even where it's, hey, AI, find a bunch of information and give it to me in a way that's easy for me to understand. Maybe you used to have to ask a research assistant to do that, and now AI can do it.
[00:31:50] David Kolbe: But yet the physical part, that's where robotics combined with AI will take that over. I think that's gonna be even more difficult partly because you've got the mechanical aspect that needs to be handled, not just the kind of digital thinking, that part where you can... Because it's easier for computers to get a bunch of information in, be given a whole bunch of rules, and learn... Look. It's not easy to create AI. Obviously, it's been in the works for fifty years, essentially. But when you add to it that you then need to create the robotics that marry those two together, it's tough. So I think that'll come later.
[00:32:31] Dustin Serviss: What what have you guys integrated with AI in helping speed up? Or... And I'm just... This is an off script question, but it's like you're in business and dealing with people.
[00:32:41] David Kolbe: So we're really in the process of doing that. Well, here's the somewhat... This is true, but it sounds like I'm bragging way more than I intend to be bragging. We really started with AI. That kind of is how the company got founded. People don't think of it that way. It was called something else. But what the evolution... And you asked before about a little of the evolution of the company. So my mom, Kathy, started figuring some things out about patterns of the way people take action that was different than how smart you are and what your personality or emotional stuff is. But she would have to observe people, and then she'd figure things
[00:33:21] David Kolbe: out and describe it, but it was not very repeatable or scalable. She didn't know how to, well, it's not that she didn't know how, she hadn't yet put it into a format where a computer could figure it out. Said many consultants. Right? Right. So... Well, but it was
[00:33:36] Dustin Serviss: really her
[00:33:36] David Kolbe: and she could maybe train another person so that other person could do it. But the artificial intelligence part where she figured out because I think this is where her family history with her dad being in psychometric testing, she figured out. But I can really just ask people a series of questions and based on their answers, I can score them, essentially. Mhmm. And I can put that into a computer so that it's not me having to do it. It's a computer doing it, and that's a really early version of artificial intelligence. If you think about it, it's just the the computer saying, okay. I'm going to observe the...
[00:34:11] David Kolbe: I'm gonna get the information back from these subjects and based on their patterns of responses, I'm gonna create this Colby index result that describes these things. Now all of that was based on a small universe of information that was basically Kathy setting up the algorithms. Well, I helped with the algorithms for scoring, but then her setting up... Okay. And here's the content that's gonna get generated based on that. So it's not open ended AI. It was really task specific. That's a total... This is where you and I are deaf... Well, I am definitely showing my eight in fact finder going deep.
[00:34:47] Dustin Serviss: I'm in. I'm in.
[00:34:49] David Kolbe: What we're doing currently is we are now working with a couple different partners to develop AI driven tools and processes for users to get a lot of our information in a way that people are now starting to be almost demanding. They're not demanding it yet, but they're coming more and more comfortable where they can go to an AI agent and say, it might be as simple as, hey, AI agent, my Colby results. So give me some advice based on that. And here's my question that I want help with. And it might be just changing the format. It might be actually changing the device. So we're working on that now.
[00:35:25] David Kolbe: The tricky part is since we're an existing business and the quality of the responses is really important to us, we don't wanna be giving advice to people that's AI driven where we're not we're not reviewing it all the time because that's... If you do that, it's not really what AI is meant to be doing. Yeah. We're not okay with a ninety percent accuracy rate where, oh, some of the time, it's really... They confuse conation and affect. So they're telling people about their preferences and desires. And that's what we're seeing is we haven't been able to dial it in to the really high level of accuracy, but we're working on it.
[00:36:04] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. No. Thanks for that. Because it is... There is some scale there. And, yeah, my brain is fireworks right now thinking of ideas for you. So is there anything else that you wanna leave our listener with today on the topic of... We're not even really talking about HR. We're talking about knowing yourself Yeah. Knowing your team, knowing your organization. And it actually... Probably the Kolbe scores actually probably lead to certain cultures.
[00:36:31] David Kolbe: So Oh, absolutely. Yeah. That's what I was talking about with you and your company. I can make good... They're not even really guesses. I can make informed judgments about the type of company you have because you drive the culture with your... It starts with you. Yeah. Now that changes over time, and there's a lot of discussion about founder led companies and when they change and when the... What needs to move away from the founder. But some of that discussion is all around if the founder drives things in particular ways and you lose the founder's push in those directions, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not.
[00:37:10] David Kolbe: Understanding the Colby results is another way to understand that and figuring out when is it time for a company, maybe... Let's say it's a way off the charts initiating quick start founder who is taking risks and trying new things out. At some point, maybe you say, look. The main part of the business needs to not do that all the time, but we should spin off a skunk works where we we do dedicate twenty percent of the r and d revenue to crazy things that usually don't work out. That's just an example. But to really answer your question, because we have been talking mostly about business, what I wanna say is it really...
[00:37:47] David Kolbe: It is about knowing yourself, and it applies everywhere. So, yes, of course, it applies at work with your business partner, who you're gonna hire, understanding the team that you put together, but it applies in your personal life too. So your spouse, your friends, your kids, and most of the stuff we do... And ninety percent of our business is working with businesses, but we do some stuff on the personal side. But just thinking about your romantic partner, having the two of you be different is great because you can you can collaborate. Again, you're you're collaborative, and you fill in each other's gaps.
[00:38:23] David Kolbe: But that can also create tension because you're different. So it's not it's not dissimilar from what we were talking about with partners, and I really hope people will apply it to their personal lives. With spouses, it's all about not just tolerating where there are those differences, but really appreciating and expressing that appreciation to your partner when you say, wow. I am so glad you're different than me, and I know that I I frustrate you sometimes because of that. But I really appreciate that you bring this stuff to our relationship that makes our lives better because we are different.
[00:39:00] David Kolbe: And I can count on you sometimes, and you can count on me in those areas when I'm necessary. And then the other thing really quickly because I... But I can't let it go is with kids. It's a different role when you're parenting kids. And to me, the key thing is the role of the parent is to help develop that kid's potential and develop their strengths. It's not about this is what worked for me, so you have to do it my way. That's more the value side. If your value is... Look. Honesty above all else. Do not lie. If it's gonna get you into trouble to tell the truth, so be it. Suck it up. That's a family value. Don't compromise on that.
[00:39:40] David Kolbe: But that's different than saying, look, I'm all about details and facts and information. So, you know, that's the only way to be successful. Don't parent that way. Parent where you learn who your kid is, you'd help them develop those strengths around their conative being.
[00:39:58] Dustin Serviss: I'm glad you brought that up. And if you have two more minutes, I'll be selfish and ask because my wife does listen to the podcast, and she has worked in the firm and has her cool be done. And I think that... I'm so glad he read this up because I didn't even think of it. Like, how many points of friction are there in a spousal relationship and add kids? And to just even look at that report and go, okay. Like, so here's an example. Listen, I'll I'll share just... I don't know if I ever shared this before, but I'm a researcher. So I love to research. So I will see a property, a stock, a crypto
[00:40:33] Dustin Serviss: buy, something where I will do a ton of research, not bring it up for a couple days or a couple weeks. I'll have all this data, and then I'll have my risk. I've assessed the risk, and we're going for it. And then I will come to the kitchen table and the kids, and it's busy, and I'll say, hey. I think we should buy this commercial property or this stock. And she's just, hey. Because that's not her. That's... It's a wrong time, not enough information. Like, just so many things. So where I'm going with my question is coach does a couple's connection in... I think it's in in California this year. It's sometimes in Florida.
[00:41:11] Dustin Serviss: But it's where couples basically would do their Colby and go to a two day retreat. Have you got... Because you guys are part of that. Are you not?
[00:41:18] David Kolbe: Yeah. We have presented there. It always seems to conflict with our conference, so I have not been a participant in it, which is annoying, and I keep wanting to do it with my wife. But Awesome.
[00:41:28] Dustin Serviss: Well, is there one... You were getting there. Is there one sort of main thing that when you have founders and spouse do Colby's that you see or that's, like, a common occurrence that you could shed some light on? And on the topic of kids, because that's a good one.
[00:41:45] David Kolbe: Okay. So there isn't one pattern. It's not, oh, founders are like this and then the spouse is like that in terms of their Colby results. Those can be different. I think the key thing is for all of us taking time to understand the other person. So I'll use your example. And do you... I don't know if you can disclose your wife's Colby result, but
[00:42:07] Dustin Serviss: I was looking... Literally, I was looking for it while you were talking, and I can't find it because
[00:42:10] David Kolbe: it's so...
[00:42:11] Dustin Serviss: It's old. It's it's probably in a binder of the cloth.
[00:42:13] David Kolbe: That's okay. So with what you're describing is you're... You doing a bunch of research on an investment decision and then saying, hey. Here's what we should be doing. If she is a three in fact finder, like, she's at the other end of the spectrum, That might work because she maybe doesn't need a bunch of information. She knows you're gonna do the research, and she can just say, sure. That's fine. Now you're describing that's not generally her reaction. So some of it might be other things like it's not a good time. Honey, I'm in the middle of getting the kids ready to go to school, and you're hitting me with this. Your timing sucks. And you...
[00:42:49] David Kolbe: That's just... You gotta learn that. That's not a creative thing. But, like, with FactFinder, my guess is... And what you described is her saying, well, not enough information. You guys might both be fact finders. And that's one of those things where... I didn't talk about this before, but there are times when we can compete with our strengths. So you did a bunch of in... A bunch of research data gathering, and you're ready to pull the trigger, but she hasn't had a chance to do the same thing. And if you understand, hey. She's a fact finder too. My suggestion for that would be next time you are interested
[00:43:26] David Kolbe: in something, when you are about to start the research, simple step is just tell her, hey, honey. I'm so jazzed about this thing. I saw this property. I'm gonna look into it. I'm gonna be doing these x number of things. And she gets her brain going in the same direction so that you're gonna be more closely aligned time wise. She's gonna maybe do some of the research. She might say, oh, yeah. Look. Tell me... When you find these answers, let me know, and you can check-in with her along the way and satisfy her need for information. So when you are ready to pull the trigger, she is too.
[00:44:02] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. No. She's... Because it's the other end where she's a savage when it comes to action. Quick start, hire, implementer, always making crafts and amazing things for dinner parties. But then she'll blast me with, hey. We need to do this. I'm like, woah. Woah. It's drinking out of a fire hose. I will help, but I need a list.
[00:44:21] David Kolbe: Yeah.
[00:44:21] Dustin Serviss: I need a list. And so we have... Over the years, it's... We have worked at that, and it is... It does. I do think it's been, unempowering as a couple to get to that stage where you're... You are acknowledging that person's... People say put yourself in their shoes, but it's if you don't know how their brain processes, then how can you put yourself in their shoes?
[00:44:41] David Kolbe: Right. A lot of times, it would be the spouse, like, as you're describing, if she's just got all these ideas and this... Do this and this, the natural reaction for somebody who's at the other end of the spectrum is just put the hand up. No. Stop. But that's not constructive. So I like what you're saying. It's get the list, but here's where... And this comes to parenting. You asked about that. I think it's crucial when you've got two parents doing the best with kids, and it's time consuming and takes a lot of energy. But let's stick with your example. So if you say at a minimum, hey, give me a list rather than just fire this stuff off.
[00:45:18] David Kolbe: But going one step further knowing that you're the initiating follow through, you can create the system for the list, and that can be a technology driven thing. It's, hey, honey. Here's the there's your calendar and my calendar. Here's the... Our calendar or to do list. It doesn't have to be complicated. But you... Knowing you, you're gonna at least make it categories like work to dos, home to dos, kid to dos. I don't know. I'm making this up. But if you just tell her, like, hey, honey. Those are great ideas. I don't wanna drop any of this. Just put them in this great system that I put together.
[00:45:50] David Kolbe: And she may not be an initiating follow through, but it's not that hard. Just put them in the list. And, frankly, it's helpful. And then if she is that kind of person who comes up with way more ideas of things that need to get done than is realistic for the family to do, once they're written down or in that list, however you put it together, it's easier to then prioritize without you just saying no. It's, hey. Yes. And, yes. These other things, I think we're gonna have to say maybe later. But you're not challenging her and pushing back and just saying, I'm not gonna do it.
[00:46:24] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. No. And I would say, listener, as a win seeing it, one of the things is if it's the implementation or the amount of things in my head, I immediately go, how would that get done? Some of the best things we've done is because Jody's brought it forward and pushed the boundaries of what I think is possible
[00:46:46] David Kolbe: Yep.
[00:46:47] Dustin Serviss: In in the ideas. So, again, it's it's magic because it does... When I actually look back, back, I'm like, yeah. We did a lot of amazing things that came from her when originally I'm gonna say, oh, no. It's kinda... It's too much. How are we gonna get it done? But it's... No. Get it done. Let's get it done. And she's... Has to manage being a mom and manage mom duties. She works hard, and so that's... And Yeah.
[00:47:07] David Kolbe: What you're describing is a great partnership where... Because you guys complement each other. She's got these great ideas. Maybe you don't get the credit for making them happen as much as you should because, yeah, she had the idea. But without you, they would just always stay there as great ideas. You bring them into reality.
[00:47:27] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. Well, thank you, David. That was a bit of a self tangent, but I appreciate that was good content. Where can people find more information if they wanna seek out the Kolbe tools?
[00:47:37] David Kolbe: Yeah. The simplest place is kolbe dot com, and it's k o l b e dot com. You can take your Kolbe index there and read more stuff.
[00:47:46] Dustin Serviss: Well, thanks a lot for coming on the picture of wealth
[00:47:47] David Kolbe: today. Thanks for having me.