The Key To Success, with James Johnson—A Coach for Leaders (#92) — Transcript
Updated: Oct 26
THE PICTURE OF WEALTH · EPISODE 92
Dustin Serviss speaks with founder and CEO coach James Johnson about redefining success, getting unstuck and building a business alongside family life. They examine goals that may no longer fit the person pursuing them.
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This transcript was generated from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. It may contain transcription or speaker-attribution errors. Refer to the recording for exact wording.
Chapters
[00:00:03] Updating your definition of success
[00:04:37] Slowing down to move forward
[00:08:54] Recognizing the need for change
[00:14:09] A three-month coaching plan
[00:18:33] Focusing the business on what matters
[00:22:32] Family as the reason behind work
[00:28:01] The swimming lesson about direction
[00:31:34] Habits and regular check-ins
[00:36:23] Health and evolving goals
[00:45:40] Peer Effect and founder groups
Guest & resources
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Transcript
[00:00:03] James Johnson: So actually, we don't realize it, but we've got our eighteen year old self or twenty one year old self is the one that has defined what success looks like. And we were quite shallow eighteen or twenty one. And so it's like it's the corner office. It's the it's the flashy car. It's whatever. And subconsciously, we're driven by this this idea of what wealth and success actually is. But actually, if you take a step back and go, what does success look like to me today? It's often very different.
[00:00:33] Show announcer: Welcome to the Picture of Wealth, a podcast all about living more of your life now yet being responsible for your future. Lifestyle experimenter, wealth scientist, and financial coach, Dustin Service, shares life hacks, wealth tips, and interviews successful entrepreneurs on how they're thriving in happiness, purpose, and prosperity.
[00:00:55] Dustin Serviss: Listener, what a treat this was. I had met James, through another contact. I didn't know him before the podcast, and we came out, great friends. James Johnson is a founder and a CEO coach. So he coaches founders of companies on how to make pivotal shifts in their business and their personal life. He's located out in the UK, but, breaking into the markets in the US. He also, has a podcast called Future Fit Founder, and he has, got a growing following at that. So he is, gonna give us some great tools and tricks on how to shift your mindset to becoming successful as you get older.
[00:01:30] Dustin Serviss: He mentions when we're eighteen, we establish some of the goals and the anchors that are our success metrics. And we carry those into our forties, yet they haven't evolved with where we are in life. And it makes it very, very hard, sometimes frustrating, to get unstuck and to head a different direction. We also uncovered some great personal connections in the fertility journeys that we had. And and James is a a new dad of a fifteen month old, so he shares how he's balancing a successful business, successful podcast, and being there for his family. So I am really excited to share this with you.
[00:02:04] Dustin Serviss: I'm excited to have James Johnson on the show today. James, thanks a lot for being on. We are talking everything, business coaching, founder coaching, so for founders of companies and getting your mind right using tips and strategies to build bigger businesses or build more efficient businesses. Now, there's never, a dull moment in that space. James, thanks a lot for being on the show.
[00:02:25] James Johnson: Oh, my pleasure, Dustin. Pretty excited about today.
[00:02:27] Dustin Serviss: James, can you just bring us up to speed? You know, people can look you up, and you've got great, bio and great, website exposure, which we'll leave, at the end of the show. But what what's got you to here? What what is the driver and, you know, what is the demand out there for for founder coaching, in the in the business space?
[00:02:46] James Johnson: I think it's growing all the time, Dustin, because I think there's this growing realization that being a founder is awesome, but it's also quite a tough gig. And it takes... And and the reason why I focus on founders is because I was a founder myself. And it's an awesome it's an awesome experience. It's an awesome journey. You have lots of fun, but it's also quite tough. Like, you're you're quite isolated. You're giving lots of support to everyone else. Doesn't... You're not much getting much back. You don't... People don't necessarily challenge you in the same way because you're you're their boss.
[00:03:18] James Johnson: And even though you might have this culture, oh, it's a really open culture. No one's gonna really challenge you if you can fire them, ultimately. And that can come with, like, personal challenges as well in terms of, like, burnout, stress, just really undervaluing the personal side. There's kind of this whole narrative around, oh, well, I'll sort out my personal life when I exit, when I retire, etcetera, just leads to this just, well, epidemic of burnout, really. Thirty percent of businesses fail because the founders actually burn out rather than the fact that it's not actually a great idea.
[00:03:51] Dustin Serviss: So what we talk about in our business is is there's never an email that comes in and says, you know, you're approved to take Fridays off. And so a founder needs to take it upon themselves and have the courage to do something different if they want a different outcome. So when when someone comes into you, help us understand what is one of the main problems you see with, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners on the podcast, listeners, in our sort of, you know, network. Where are people at post COVID? You know, go go go goals, revenue growth, all that stuff. And then you've got the mix of, like, well, I wanna do as little
[00:04:30] Dustin Serviss: as possible and make as much money so I can have as much time off. So where in the middle does does the market sit?
[00:04:37] James Johnson: Well, I think there's this real fallacy around the way to succeed is to work harder and harder. It's kinda like just put your head down, go faster, work harder, and this whole hustle culture thing. Whereas you could end up just kinda just running around, like, all over the place. You're not just getting anywhere near to where you're trying to get to. So I think just taking a step back and going, one, it's actually by going slower, you can go faster. Just taking the time for yourself, taking the time to look up is actually gonna get you to where you wanna get to because you're taking a shorter path.
[00:05:08] James Johnson: And then I think the second thing is that this idea that looking after yourself is kind of selfish. I think as founders we think, oh, we should put like every effort into the business. We should put every effort into everything else. But actually, if we look after us, the irony is if we put effort into ourselves and we look after ourselves, we'll actually again go faster. The business will be better. Our team will be better. Like, a founder with... Who's going through, like, mental health issues or stress just... Is a founder who's not making good decisions. They're not showing up for their staff as they should be, and they're probably
[00:05:39] James Johnson: not gonna survive the journey. So I just think taking these two realizations, which is one, it's okay to take time and actually it's positive. And secondly, looking after yourself is not a nice to have. It's a critical part of a successful founder journey is actually quite liberating.
[00:05:56] Dustin Serviss: So we work with with a number of blue collar business owners. And what I find when we talk about this mindset is they struggle with, well, if I work less, then my employees won't respect me, and the business will go for shit. So, you know, it's... I'll say to guys, well, you know, you're working twelve hours a day, six days a week. You gotta you gotta knock that down. Like, no weekends. And they'll go, oh, well, but if the guys don't see me coming in first or work on the weekends and I don't, like, really tell them that I was in on Saturday, then, you know, they won't work as hard. Mhmm. How how do you coach around that topic?
[00:06:32] James Johnson: Well, I think it's analyzing what's really going on there. Just kinda slight imposter syndrome of, oh, am I am I really the boss? Am I really good enough? Like, I need to... The only way I can prove that is by working longer as... And actually, again, this kind of first in last out idea is actually quite detrimental. What is actually your role as the leader? Like... And I think one is I work with my clients on is just redefining their job spec. So, like, step one is, like, trying to clarify what they're actually trying to achieve, but then really look at their own job spec and give themselves permission to take a different role.
[00:07:07] James Johnson: Because if they were setting their job for someone else, they wouldn't say, what do you want from your boss? Well, I want them to be first in. I want to be last out. I want them to be super harassed. I want them to be, like, so busy. I can't get a hold of them. Like, that's not what they want. They want someone there who's steady. They want someone there who's thinking about the future. They want someone who shows up in a good mindset to support and listen to them. So actually what we think they value, because what we used to value when we were junior, we haven't actually updated.
[00:07:36] James Johnson: And I think just taking that moment to really look at it and go, what do I want to be and how do I have the most impact on the business? And you can even sense check that with your team, which I've... Some of my clients do. So what do you make... Which of these two jobs specs do you... What do you want from me? Do you want this version of me or this version of me? And they always go, I'd love this version of you. I don't I don't want the... And that, again, that's quite freeing.
[00:08:01] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. No. It's very freeing. And and is there is there a moment that happens for business owners or... Because I I know, you know, lot... Again, lots of the people we coach or work with, there is, there is interest. You know, we go for beers at a pub and, you know, we talk about it. I get them all excited and they're like, I gotta do what what you're saying. And then next week, busy, busy, busy. It just deteriorates. And so is... The people that sign up with you, is there a a moment, or is there a something that gets them going like, James, like, I need your help right now, or do you find you have to kinda grind your way
[00:08:39] Dustin Serviss: in to to get them to to listen to you?
[00:08:41] James Johnson: I I think that's a really interesting point. I think most people probably come for coaching about three to six months after they probably should have done. And...
[00:08:51] Dustin Serviss: Yes. Bingo. That wasn't the setup, but I thought...
[00:08:54] James Johnson: I mean, definitely when you start having, like, physical symptoms of burnout or when you start... It starts impacting your family relationships or you start seeing, let's say, the business is not trending how you want it to trend, or there's a sense of frustration that actually you're moving further away from this goal than than moving closer towards it. When it starts becoming really painful, then people... It becomes a real no brainer because there's like... It's like if I don't fix this now, this physical symptom is gonna continue. Like, if I don't fix this now in three months, six months, I'm not gonna have a bit like a business. Yeah.
[00:09:29] James Johnson: But actually having those conversations three months, six months earlier can unlock the sort of what your vision should be. You can unlock the future version of your business, can unlock the future version of you. It's just really hard because it was so locked with myself. Oh, I shouldn't spend money on myself. I shouldn't spend time on myself. I just focus entirely on my business and entirely on my team. And that is a fallacy. And that... That's really hard to break away from because that's definitely how I felt, a hundred percent how I felt.
[00:09:58] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. And I just wrote an e... Basically, our newsletter called, you know, the the service wealth edge. And in it, I was talking about people's wealth edges, and we get fixated on other people's strategies. You know, your neighbors buying rental houses, your other person's doing crypto. Who knows? Like, there's all these things, and you're like, oh, that's what I gotta do. Well, the reality is you could you could start with your own business. If you're successful, likely, you're saving a bit of money. So then you say, well, I put ten thousand a month or two thousand a month or five hundred a month or whatever into stocks or into GICs
[00:10:30] Dustin Serviss: or whatever it is. You could literally say, I'm not gonna put that money into investments, and I'm just gonna put it into coaching, or I'm gonna reinvest it back in myself. And, again, you know, love them or hate them. Grant Cardone talks about it. Like, when you're younger, especially, investing in your skills and your connections is is way more value probably. So get us down the road. You're coaching. Someone comes to you and says, you know, James, I am... I should've called you six months ago. Where are we gonna start? What is, like, step one in in your process? Does it have a name? Where where are we going here?
[00:11:06] James Johnson: So the first thing to me, it's interesting. That's why I love the name of your podcast. I focus on picture of wealth because I think it ties into what I talk about in terms of... I talk about, like, a work life integration rather than a work life balance. Because I think work life balance sets us up to fail. I don't think it's possible to balance work and life. And so the step one for anyone is to, like, take a step back and go, okay. What does success actually look like to you? Because I think when we come into this, we leave school and may... Maybe we go to university, maybe we don't. And at some point, we start working.
[00:11:43] James Johnson: But in that in that period of time before we start working, that is actually when we define what success looks like to us. So actually we don't realize it but we've got our eighteen year old self or twenty one year old self is the one that has defined what success looks like. And we were quite shallow eighteen or twenty one. And so it's like it's the corner office. It's the it's the flashy car. It's whatever. And subconsciously, we're driven by this this idea of what wealth and success actually is. But actually, if you take a step back and go, what does success look like to me today? It's often very different. Like, it often involves family.
[00:12:20] James Johnson: It often involves stuff outside of work. It often involves health being there for friends. And actually taking a step back and and relooking at that and to find, okay. Well, actually, this is what success looks like to me, like, holistically in my life, in my work, drive so many other realizations. But that is always the first step is just take that step back and go, okay. Today, if we took a moment pause, how would you define success?
[00:12:48] Dustin Serviss: Mhmm. And it's interesting because I'm writing my twenty twenty three goals and, you know, laying it out for the team. And I still have some of those sneaky goals of, you know, own a Harley or, you know, a turbo snowmobile, you know, and then amongst ones that have evolved. But it's... You know, as I looked at them this morning, I'm thinking those those are things you could buy, you know, realistically. So it's it's not like those are goals anymore. Those are old. I... I'd love. I might coin that from you. I'll give you credit for it in the future. But your eighteen year old self
[00:13:23] Dustin Serviss: created that stuff when you became, you know, into the workforce, and we need to unpack that. You know, I... You know, there's many books written on it, but you don't always have to believe your thoughts to be true. And, you know, so really having somebody like you, a mine out that is is so valuable for for founders and entrepreneurs. So, keeping that kinda going and keeping your flow, you've got kind of... You've you've exposed people to a different mindset. Now are we go... Are we getting very strategic with writing things down? Are we working a plan? You know, are people just talking to you weekly, monthly? Like, what what is...
[00:14:05] Dustin Serviss: You know, you and, like, you're a coach. So what what does a business coach do?
[00:14:09] James Johnson: So that... No. With people, I would work initially on a three month program because you need time for things to to shift. And once you've got that clear vision, it's also about pulling out what's blocking people and what people's concerns are. So everyone's coming into this with slightly different experience, different expectations, and different problems. So the next stage is then defining what success of those three months looks like. So what's the change we wanna see and then creating a plan to work backwards from that. And I think that's really important because we often we build plans, we build them forward.
[00:14:43] James Johnson: And I'm sure when you do your financial planning stuff, it's exactly the same. Like, looking forward, there are so many reasons why you can't do something. But if you're clear where your endpoint is, you can just sequence it backwards. It's like you're not even thinking about the blockers. They just kind of naturally come out, and it's just a much easier process. So I think that planning backwards is really important. But one thing that's really surprised me actually is I think there's this real need to clear the decks as well. So Clear
[00:15:10] Dustin Serviss: the decks meaning what?
[00:15:11] James Johnson: It's not just about having the plan. It's about, like, we've got so much stuff that's just sitting in our head that's actually blocking us.
[00:15:17] Dustin Serviss: Mhmm.
[00:15:17] James Johnson: It's kinda like, oh, there's there's this product I need to do or there's this person I need to find or there's this. And actually, they're they're just sitting in our head and we probably haven't done stuff enough about them. And they're kind of nagging away at us, but actually just getting that out on paper just so you can just look at it and go, okay. Well, this is the stuff that's sitting in my head. Okay. This I'm gonna do. This I'm not gonna do. This I don't care about anymore. Okay. This I need to get done. And actually using that first three months also just to kind of unfreeze yourself because it kind of...
[00:15:47] James Johnson: Those those undone thoughts freeze us in place. So before we can actually even start moving forward, we need to unfreeze ourself.
[00:15:56] Dustin Serviss: But, James, I set goals, like, five years ago that I haven't achieved, and I'm one of those guys that locks on to stuff. So I'm gonna... You know, what do I do about that? I don't wanna I don't wanna take a goal off my thing. Like, I'm an achiever.
[00:16:07] James Johnson: Well, I think... Well, so this this is why starting with the vision is so important. So let's say you you redefine your vision. Those goals may no longer be relevant. And often aren't... Maybe say like the Harley Davidson. Maybe it's a nice to have, maybe it's kind of actually maybe that doesn't fit into my lifestyle because I've got two kids. It would stress out my wife. Actually, I'd I'd be worried I would have an accident. Like this actually isn't even a goal. And so it's it's it's quite, releasing because you're sit... You're sitting on all these things in your head,
[00:16:38] James Johnson: but actually relooking at them in a very structured format and going, okay. Well, this is what I'm trying to get to. These half of these things don't actually move me towards it. They kind of move me over here. So actually, they're gone. Oh, maybe I can add one or two on. But actually, it's quite an easy process when you get into it because once you're locked on to that vision, it's very simple. Does it help me get towards there or not? If it does, do it. If it doesn't, why why bother?
[00:17:07] Dustin Serviss: Is there a recent, file without breaching confidentiality you can talk about maybe just, like, the generalization or a common... Maybe it's a common thing you hear with founders of, like, what that person kinda was start... What... Was going this way, and then you managed to help them reshift to this way.
[00:17:26] James Johnson: Yeah.
[00:17:27] Dustin Serviss: And then, you know, just so people have context to what kind of a... What is an example here?
[00:17:32] James Johnson: Okay. So this this is quite business y, but it also feeds into personal. So I work with the clients, and they were getting really stressed because they'd set their targets themselves to double their turnover. And they were, like Double or or Double double the year. And it was... I mean, it's a doable target. They've done it before. But they were caught their way through the year, and they were and they were sort of tracking off it. And And what they found is they were going into these patterns of behaviors trying to, oh, we need to close we need to close deals till we're getting further and further away from our revenue goal.
[00:18:03] Dustin Serviss: Right.
[00:18:04] James Johnson: And actually, when you took a step back, what they cared about was actually not the revenue. The revenue was not important. When you when you came back to what they really cared about, they cared about profit. They cared about customer experience. They cared about their people, and they cared about feeling proud that they were doing something. That... That's a sense of of, like, really creating something worthwhile. And what that meant was that they quite easily stepped away from those goals because it sounds like... Suddenly it was like, we'd actually... Why do we care? Why do we care about revenue?
[00:18:33] James Johnson: Like, it's not on our top four things we care about. Like, we're trying to build this. And ironically, they've actually now encompassed up in their revenue because they they they rejig what they did. They looked at the the sort of lines of service that they did. I said, actually, well, these two, we feel really great about and the team enjoy it. These two, they're quite high revenue, but they're quite stressful and we're not sure we're, like, experts at it. So we'll cut those bits. We'll focus on... Actually, we'll add one more bit in here because actually we like it and the team like it and we think it's a good idea.
[00:19:06] James Johnson: And it's taking that pressure off themselves. I mean, this... They were no longer, like, chasing a revenue target. They realized they didn't care about it. And, actually, the best thing was they they went out to their team. And the team were really excited because they're... Everyone was feeling the pressure beforehand both of the business underperforming, although it wasn't. It just perceived to be unperforming. And they're also really excited because the founders were really excited again.
[00:19:29] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. Well, doesn't... That energy is contagious. And you you kinda started the podcast with that that, you know, if a person is working twelve hours a day, six days a week, you know, we often say to people, like, if your staff starts to feel like you're not engaged or you're not looking and don't have vision for the future, then this won't exist in the future. So Hundred Yeah. You get
[00:19:54] James Johnson: Hundred percent. And I think the the the thing that makes me happiest is when is when founders say, I'm enjoying I'm enjoying running my business again for the first time in x. Because it's miserable. When you when you set up a business and you've got like this vision and you feel it's not actually getting towards it and you feel like you're failing. You feel like you're failing a business and as a founder you are your business so you feel like you're failing individually.
[00:20:15] Dustin Serviss: Right.
[00:20:16] James Johnson: And it's getting further and further away as you start scrabbling harder and harder. And actually just taking a step back and going, actually, what do I really want? What do I what do I wanna build? Actually, I can do it. I just need a bit of time and support. It feels great again. Like... And that that, I think, is the real sort of duality of, like, delivering business results by delivering that personal impact as well.
[00:20:40] Dustin Serviss: You are a founder, and I'm switching gears a little bit and only because, we talked about it, before. You're a founder, busy, successful, going, going, going, and you've got a new baby. How are you managing that? Or how... Like, I know this is outside your founder scope, but it's a very real scenario for many of us.
[00:21:02] James Johnson: Well, I... I'd say the first thing is that my wife and I really struggled to have our child. Like, we we tried for about five years, and we were literally about to start IVF when we found out, and we went through miscarriages. But then we've... We've bounced our IVF. But we made a number of changes before we did that. So we... I switched to being a coach. I sold my business. My wife switched her work. So she moved to a new... She's a dentist. She's a brilliant dentist. And she moved to, like, an even better practice and went part time. We looked after ourselves personally, but meant that we...
[00:21:38] James Johnson: He was something that we really wanted and we we made a lot of life change to have. So I think going into an issue of just a real gratitude that it was possible helps. Yep. But it's also really helping me. I really don't have a magic bullet on this because it's hard. I mean, as as as you know, I mean, you you are not operating at the top of your game because you are tired. Like, there is a big demand on your time that you maybe want to be present for. I think I... For me, I think it's acknowledging that actually the game has changed again and that... But that means like a broken record. Coming back to this vision of what you want
[00:22:21] James Johnson: makes all the difference because of what you're... For me, if you ask my wife when we first met, I was so charming. I would say, look, for me, work is number one. Like, I just just wanna be clear. Like
[00:22:32] Dustin Serviss: She accent.
[00:22:32] James Johnson: Work is number one. Everything else comes second. I'm so focused on work. Luckily, she's a very patient and loving woman. And Yeah. Let let me let me go away with that for a period. But I think that is a mindset that I had, and I think mindset quite common to found is, like, work is one. But actually, once I shifted and said, actually, I'm doing this... I'm still I'm still very work focused. I still love it. It's still my re... One of my reasons for bidding. But actually my family is my who. Everything is around that. Mhmm. And so taking... It's really hard. It's taking a step back from these goals that we've set ourselves and we've
[00:23:09] James Johnson: got used to doing because the game has changed. Like, we no longer have seven days a week. We can no longer work evenings and we call... Maybe we can, but we probably need to get involved in the mornings. Or we're we're playing with less time, but success has changed. Success is no longer... Might no longer be like growing the business three times or having fifty people. Success might be actually focusing on profit or focusing on how you can really use your time effectively or how you can make sure you're there for certain things. But I've I've really struggled this year. So Arty my son goes swimming on a Monday.
[00:23:43] James Johnson: I mean my wife take it in turns. And I've really struggled at times this year on the Sunday night going, well maybe this week I could ask Marcela to take him because I've got an extra morning back. And just kind of take a look at myself like the whole reason you made these changes is to have a family and to be there for them. What are you gonna do? But there's still this guilt in terms of it's so ingrained of kind of a career worth of be first in, be last out. Yeah. Like, work as hard as you can. And even though I coach you on this, it's still... I'm still catching myself thinking these thoughts because they're so embedded.
[00:24:15] James Johnson: So I'm not saying it's easy.
[00:24:17] Dustin Serviss: No. You've, well, you you you you kind of... You manage... I I I often say to people, there's a hundred and sixty eight hours in a week. So if you were balanced, you'd have, fifty six hours for sleep, fifty six hours for work, and fifty six hours for yourself. But the self bucket includes family. So, you know, when you look at that, it's like, well, I still wanna go to the gym or I still wanna go play golf or whatever a person's thing is. And it's probably not gonna come out of the seven hours a night of sleep because that's not good for anyone's self, and it's probably not gonna come out of the family bucket.
[00:24:51] Dustin Serviss: So it's gonna come out of the work bucket. It's the easiest bucket to pull it from. So you need to be faster at making decisions and better, and, you know, have done the reps using a coach to give you more efficient tools to to get more of your day. Because then all of a sudden you free up time. If you're not doing fifty six hours of work week, you could do forty five. You still got nine. So now you got six days of three... Like, a couple hours, you know, an hour here. That's great. So, I I I share the the fertility journey, and and some listeners know, some don't, but we, we equal you on the five years of,
[00:25:30] Dustin Serviss: fertility issues and seven in vitros and the stress around that. I... Art goes out to you. And, happy that you've got, Artie because it's... That's not a very fun, moment. And that would... I would have called you, during our, our journey because as work... You know, work paid the bills, and the bills enabled our life. So if work didn't happen, then our life was gonna be shit, and you couldn't have family and work. Mhmm. You could only be, you know, the friends we have that are, you know, they have average incomes. They're the happiest, nicest people. They're the best dad. And, but I...
[00:26:12] Dustin Serviss: Average income wasn't part of my wiring right from my paper route from AJ. So, again, I think we all, as dads, are are working towards that balance. And that sense of, like, success like I know it before is not... You know, I had to do it last year where there's a calendar you can't see on another wall. But I put dots on every time I drop the kids off at at school. And my wife's like, yeah. That's your job. You're a dad. And I'm like, well, yeah. But I didn't envision that at eighteen. I didn't envision... Like, that's... That was my wife's job. And so unpacking that and then seeing the year of all the green dots,
[00:26:49] Dustin Serviss: you know, she's like, well, so what? And, like, yeah, for me, though, that means something. And then it now is a habit. So thank you, for sharing that story. That was that was really special. What... Do you see more people coming to you with families, or is it more of the hard chargers? Or is there... Do you even even notice a trend there?
[00:27:11] James Johnson: I would say I would say it's hard chargers with families. And I and I and I and I think... And we're trying to win at both. Or it's hard charges with thinking about families and a conscious that how's that gonna impact. Like, can I charge harder if I've got a family? But I I really think it comes back this idea of it's not about running faster. It's about running smarter and taking the time because if your journey to success is shorter, you can go slower. So if you... I'll give you an example. So I sue triathlons very badly. I was a really bad swimmer.
[00:27:51] Dustin Serviss: You you do them. It's a UK term you just, hit us up with there. You do or sue or what you just
[00:27:57] James Johnson: I I did them. So I have... I've done it ages. Okay.
[00:28:00] Dustin Serviss: Okay. Gotcha.
[00:28:01] James Johnson: And I was really bad at swimming. So I ended up I ended up doing an Ironman, and I did it breaststroke. But I tried to do in in a in a lead up, I tried to do a swimming race, and I was trying to do front crawl. And I was like, I just need to go faster. I was kind of swimming away thinking, oh, I'm doing really well. And ended up put my head up to see where I was. I was literally over by the side of the lake. I just veered off the course and ended up by the side of the lake. And I've always thought there's such a good analogy around coaching. Like, if you're not putting your head up and just checking where you're going,
[00:28:31] James Johnson: you can feel you're doing really well, but you're veering so far off course. So you do need to clear where you're trying to get to, hence back to the vision thing. But you do need to check-in. Otherwise, you can end up going miles off. So actually, if you put the right sort of check ins in place and you look after yourself, you're more... It's... For me, it's more about energy than time. So if you look after yourself, you can generate sort of a more energy in a shorter space of time so you'll get more stuff done. If you're clear about what you're trying to do, you won't do stuff that's
[00:28:58] James Johnson: not gonna get you to where you wanna get to, in which case you're gonna get a lot of time back. Because the reality is as founders, as humans, we could fill up our diary ten times over quite easily just on the work front.
[00:29:10] Dustin Serviss: Hundred percent. In twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, there's never... There's always something, and entrepreneurs are full of good ideas and full of even more great ideas. And, you know, you just never a shortage. Right?
[00:29:25] James Johnson: So true.
[00:29:26] Dustin Serviss: So if if people are... How do people... Like, there's most successful clients that you've had where they made a real pivotal shift in their business and their personal life, whatever it is. How did they establish the habit? Or how did they establish... Like, is it... You know, you mentioned three months, you're coaching. So there's some sort of interval you're talking. You're working through some things. But then when you're gone after three months, how have you established that habit?
[00:29:51] James Johnson: So the initial program is three months, and then it then it continues. I actually... So I had a coach. The main reason why I got into coaching was I had a coach. I had the same coach for six years, Because it is a constant, it's like you keep on uncovering stuff, and the things you discover are crazy. Like, one of one of my clients recently stopped drinking, and that's not something that I... I'm not going to coaching going, you shouldn't drink. Like, I I Right. Don't... I personally don't drink but I really don't mind either way. And they said to me, I think they were half joking.
[00:30:26] James Johnson: They said, if I'd realized that my true self didn't drink, I wouldn't have started this process. My true self sucks. But I mean, they're joking because
[00:30:36] Dustin Serviss: actually that's...
[00:30:37] James Johnson: They became very clear on what they're trying to achieve. And it's kinda like, does drinking fit into this? And for some people it does, for some people it doesn't. But I think that ongoing support is quite important. It doesn't seem to be as intense. Often it shifts to, like, a monthly session rather than twice a month.
[00:30:52] Dustin Serviss: Right.
[00:30:53] James Johnson: But it is an ongoing process of, like, you fix this or uncover this, goals can change, progress can happen. It doesn't... You don't you don't change everything in three months.
[00:31:05] Dustin Serviss: No. That... That's what I was impressed. I was I was thinking of the people we coach, we'll work with them, you know, for six months. And then, you know, it just... If if you don't have the right tools or the habits or try and establish, hey. You know, here's six things that we're working on, but, really, this is gonna take, like, a year. And... But we're gonna do these two things in three months, and and you might only achieve four in in six months. But if they're they're big enough things, then it's, it... It's it's meaningful.
[00:31:34] James Johnson: Also, I think habit... Habits entropy. Like, we think, oh, why why why drop this habit? Entropy is like a natural part of the world, like, things that you stop doing things. So and it's about every three months you stop doing things you don't reinforce it. So actually having that time just have someone to check-in with is a good discipline to know that you're going to check-in and it's a good discipline to have someone to check-in to. So I think I think the reason why I became a coach and reason why I enjoyed having a coach is because I think it's such a unique relationship because every other relationship you have is based around power.
[00:32:09] James Johnson: Like, you have your team, you have power over them, you're having conversations with an investor, there's a power game going on. Even to agree with your family, there are certain business aspects where there is a power thing going on. Whereas a coach is truly a peer relationship where there's no agenda.
[00:32:27] Dustin Serviss: Right.
[00:32:27] James Johnson: So actually having that completely safe space just to go, oh, I'm feeling like this or I'm thinking of this or I'm not sure about this. These are conversations that you probably don't want to have with your team. You maybe don't want to take home and stress your partner. Like, maybe don't don't even feel comfortable saying in front of other people because it's kinda like it feels like maybe it's slightly weird thing to think. But actually having that space, knowing that you've got it is actually very freeing.
[00:32:56] Dustin Serviss: How have you found the transition from, again, recruitment was your past, but has your income gone up or down since you left recruitment?
[00:33:02] James Johnson: That is a great question. It's gone up
[00:33:09] Dustin Serviss: because Yeah. Interesting.
[00:33:13] James Johnson: What's interesting about it is is that I work less now than I did before.
[00:33:19] Dustin Serviss: Mhmm.
[00:33:21] James Johnson: But before, it was very locked. Many businesses, particularly... This is one of the things I do with my clients, hit this sort of danger zone area where you've grown to a certain size, your revenue is growing, but you start putting in all these costs to support it. So you put extra management in, you put extra sort of staff in, you put extra systems in. And actually your revenue is going like this, but your profit starts going down. That's enormously frustrating because you're like
[00:33:47] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:33:48] James Johnson: I'm working really hard to grow, but actually all this money is being soaked up. And for me now, that's not something that I experienced, and I think it's really helpful to help other founders explore that as well. Like, what the... How to escape that danger zone trap. It feels very frustrating because it's like, if I continue doing this, I'm actually getting further away from my my vision. I would say even apart from the earning, I would say I'm much wealthier in terms of having my family, having the ability to have that time, being properly present for them, not being stressed, and actually being
[00:34:28] James Johnson: being able to show up and smile and be in a good mood with my my wife and my child, that is priceless.
[00:34:37] Dustin Serviss: Do you ever not get do you ever not get kinda sucked into going, well, if I had an apartment building of, you know, six units and it paid me this much, then I wouldn't have to work. I get all this rent. You don't ever get sucked into
[00:34:50] James Johnson: them? I I work with some really successful founders, and I'll be honest. Sometimes I talk to them, they're like, oh, well, I'm doing this. My profit for this month is I'm gonna do, like, two million profit this month. I was like, shit. Like, that is that is that is not something you're gonna do as a coach.
[00:35:09] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. That's right.
[00:35:10] James Johnson: But at the same time, I've also made a conscious choice to step away from that journey for now so I can focus on being with my family and help... And helping other founders. It may be something I go back to. Maybe when Artie's older, maybe I would go back into Annie's ex style role. But I also may not because I, again, I don't think just comes down to the money. Like, my definition of what success is has has has really changed. So it's a great question. But I feel I feel wealthier.
[00:35:46] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. And that that isn't, and and again, I'm I'm not dressed in a suit and tie, although I deal with tens of millions and hundreds of net worth. I'm a bit counterculture to the finance industry because when we're young, you're told that you need to save for retirement, you need to put money into investments, you need to, you know, do this so that when you're retired, you can be happy. So all along the way, you... For forty years, you should, you know, be sort of average because, see, you need to save a lot. You know, you might not have enough. And then when you retire... So, you know, living that life now and and you said it, it's like,
[00:36:23] Dustin Serviss: you know, if you think of the five richest people you know, are they the five wealthiest people you know? And we all, you you know, I think agree that this... It's not usually the same group of five people. So, you know, and and you you gave a great point that for now, that can be your goal. For... So it isn't that this is for the rest of your life. You know, you know, we can change, and we can evolve, and we can go different directions. And, expand a bit on the the triathlon thing in an essence of the health. Because one thing we we are super passionate about, I think that's part of
[00:37:00] Dustin Serviss: the reason we connected is, like, you know, if you're healthier, you can work longer, maybe work in... And it it doesn't mean you have to struggle for that, you know, that long, but work a job that you like longer into, you know, your seventies, which means you can save less, which means you could spend more now or make less and still have a great life. So what in your triathlon training was sort of the biggest breakthrough health wise? Because obviously, you had to up your health game from not doing triathlons to when you're doing them. They're Ironmans.
[00:37:33] James Johnson: I don't I don't oversell my triathlon training since I was I was honestly really bad. Just just very stubborn. It was... That was a great example of a eighteen year old goal that I never updated. It was just like, that looks super hard and impressive. I wanna do an Ironman. I didn't actually... I love running. I like cycling. I hate swimming. It's a really stupid thing for me to have done, but it's got in my head that it was, like, the hardest challenge you could do. So I was like, I need to do that. Yep. I did it once
[00:37:57] Dustin Serviss: and I
[00:37:57] James Johnson: stopped because I didn't really like it. But I could tell people I've done it. So
[00:38:04] Dustin Serviss: Yep. Check.
[00:38:07] James Johnson: But I I... One thing I did learn was nutrition, mainly because I can't get injuring myself during training and because I wasn't following the right nutrition. I was getting really tired. And that was actually a pattern of behavior. Like, I was in Hong Kong working for a multinational called Jardines and I went to the doctor one time because I had headaches and I was really tired. I was like okay so what what have you been doing recently? I was like well I do rugby training on this night, I do football training on this night, I go to gym during lunch times, I do good running. And I've... He's like, when did you start doing that?
[00:38:35] James Johnson: I was like, oh, I started, like, two weeks ago. He's like, what were you doing before? I was like, well, not not much. I've been... I hadn't been doing much for ages. He's like, this is this is not a complicated diagnosis. I do but I do think that that... What the the big surprise to me actually was not just the impact from nutrition on performance and health, but also on mental health. Like, I I really think if you eat well, like, stay away from sugar, I don't drink. I really feel that helps you show up in a better mental mental space as well, like having vegetables. And, I'm not the greatest cook, but I try.
[00:39:17] James Johnson: My wife luckily takes much more of a lead on that than me. I try not to lean on her too much for that. But Well, she's
[00:39:24] Dustin Serviss: a dentist. She probably keeps away from the sugar by design.
[00:39:28] James Johnson: Sugar fizzy drinks. It's not happening. Ah. But... Yeah. No. It's it's really... I I think that was... That that has been the game changer for me just in terms of just realizing the impact of nutrition on physical and mental health. Although it's not it's not something I I am an expert on, so it's not something I, like, coach on, but it's something that I flag that is something worth considering.
[00:39:52] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. No. But it's... You know, people who are of success mindset, usually, there's, something that they do. And so, again, if it's the sugar and the fizzy drinks, then that's, one thing, but also just being mindful of, of the diet and the mental health, thing. Do you openly talk about the alcohol of why you stopped or what what positives it brought to your life? Because I think the... I see a trend right now of less consumption in Canada. UK,
[00:40:19] James Johnson: I
[00:40:19] Dustin Serviss: think there's still a big consumption of beers and and all that kind of stuff. But, here, it seems to be that there's a trend to non alcoholic beer. So what what is the the drop?
[00:40:31] James Johnson: So I... So for me, when I when I did the Ironman, I didn't drink. I did a boxing match when I was in the Philippines. I didn't drink. And it just... I'd never really applied the same thought to work, and I got to a stage where I was getting really frustrated. I was like, I'm not achieving what I want to achieve. Like, I'm just kind of in this danger zone, but I was like, if I'm gonna do this, I need to take any excuses off the table. And if I've if I've ever tried to achieve something cool, I've stopped drinking. So why am I not applying the same logic to work? Oh. And so originally, I set myself a target, so I wouldn't drink until I
[00:41:02] James Johnson: hit a certain target. And I made it quite public in my business. I was like, this, I'm not gonna drink until I do this. Didn't didn't even manage to achieve it, but I never actually went back to it because I I just... I never really missed it. Like, I I I definitely couldn't have stopped drinking if I was single. Luckily, I'd already met Marcela and I was very happy and I'm very settled. But I also think that I was just aware that I spent a lot of time in Asia, my degree was Chinese, And you you see... You look back on the UK and you just realize that we do have a bit of a drinking culture and a drinking issue.
[00:41:42] James Johnson: It's kinda like try and drink two, three pints before closing in a in a quick... That is not really healthy drinking patterns. And you go somewhere else, you have, like, a drink in a bottle for an hour. That feels a little bit more Yeah. Reasonable. And I and I think the next generation is is sort of Right. Wising up to that. Maybe partly because in our day, no one's recording anything Facebook didn't just start. Whereas now everything's recorded on Instagram for life. So Yeah. You've got to call TikTok, so you gotta be careful. But that... That's... I I probably could talk about it more. I just...
[00:42:16] James Johnson: It's one of those things I don't wanna appear preachy or kinda like, oh, look at me because personal choice, it works for me, but it might
[00:42:23] Dustin Serviss: be No.
[00:42:24] James Johnson: No. It it might not work for other people.
[00:42:27] Dustin Serviss: Well, I think you you... It doesn't matter what you're trying to achieve. That discipline of... If you're gonna try and do something, then why not go all in or don't? You know, that that... Let's... Hell yes or no. And so, again, I think that's a a great, kind of, you know, bookend of, like, mindset positivity. What is sort of your final message? What's got you the most excited? What are you talking the most about as sort of a parting comment? You know, what are you talking to your clients about that's, you know, seems to be getting the best results or you're the most excited about? Or that you wanna teach somebody?
[00:43:03] James Johnson: God. Such an open question. It's great. Buzz... Buzzing with ideas. There's no one to talk about. I think maybe the most powerful message I can give people is that, ultimately, I think as founders, you're not alone. And I think a lot of people as a founder feel like they're the only one experiencing it, and they feel quite isolated because often they don't have a group of founders around them. They've just got friends and family who don't really get... It's very hard to understand what being a founder is like if you're not a founder. I mean, it's it's awesome being a founder, but it's also really tough.
[00:43:33] James Johnson: It comes with its own challenges, which people are not founders don't understand. So they see, oh, you got your own business. You're a success. It's like, well, like, in the early stage, I could probably make more money if I was doing my old job. Like, it comes with all sorts of responsibility that I'm maybe not equipped for. There's this big sort of, if it doesn't work, I'm gonna look like a complete fool. Like, there's there's so much that comes with that, but I think knowing that and just accepting that as a founder, all other founders are going through it, which is why I did my podcast, Future Fit Founder, was just just to
[00:44:08] James Johnson: share that story, the sort of the pain points rather than successes. We talk about successes so much. We sort of fetishize success. It's kinda like, oh, build a business in six months and look at this twenty three year old. It's like, it's nonsense. Whereas actually most people it's like a seven year, ten year journey based around, like, ups, loads of downs, and just resilience, just sticking to it. Like, if you if you flip, it's just not gonna work. So I think... So it's a very long answer to to a very small question. But I think
[00:44:34] Dustin Serviss: No. It's It's perfect.
[00:44:36] James Johnson: You're not alone. I think it's it's numb... Like, there surrounded several founders, look for a coach, just appreciate that it's... You are more important than your business because if you're okay, your business will be okay.
[00:44:50] Dustin Serviss: If I'm if I'm that lonely entrepreneur and I'm looking for some sort of group or mastermind or regular check-in, is there any that you see and disclose if you're affiliated and get paid for any of these if you recommend them. But is there any mastermind websites? Like, I can think of a few names, but, like, that you find... You know? And, again, I'm I'm thinking of the person that's like, hey. I don't have time for homework and coaching and we... But I got time for... You know, every two months, I gotta sit down. I see, maybe it's Zoom, twenty business people. And there's a mid... Medium moderator, and they talk, and we kinda just...
[00:45:30] Dustin Serviss: I'm kinda... Just can kinda, like, ruminate in other entrepreneurs going through the struggles. Is there any websites, groups, things you could recommend to to listeners?
[00:45:40] James Johnson: Well, not to slightly pitch my own, but I also do a mastermind. So You're not there. My website, PeerEffect. We do peer groups. So that's exact ten ten founders. Peer
[00:45:52] Dustin Serviss: effect.
[00:45:53] James Johnson: Yeah. Peer hyphen effect dot com.
[00:45:55] Dustin Serviss: Okay.
[00:45:56] James Johnson: And we'd... I create peer groups of up to ten CEOs of non non competing... Founders of non competing businesses for exactly that. Meet monthly for two and a half hours. Just do that. I think peer support... And there are other people that do this. Like, I think it's a really it's a really powerful thing to do because you get so much from your peers that you wouldn't even necessarily get from a coach. I think actually the combination of coaching and peer support, I I really think is the sweet spot.
[00:46:25] Dustin Serviss: And it's brilliant because because now we can be worldwide. So, again, you're gonna have, you know, ten entrepreneurs in your own hometown. You know, my town that my office is in is two hundred and twenty thousand people. It's a pretty same slice where if you've got people in Singapore, people in the UK, people in South Africa, you know, that's... You're gonna get more kind of exposure, to that. So thanks. We will have, all your contact info in, in the show notes. But where do people find you, or where do you like people to find you?
[00:46:57] James Johnson: You could find me on LinkedIn. It's probably the easiest way. Or you can contact me through my website as well, which is pear hyphen effect dot com.
[00:47:09] Dustin Serviss: James, thanks, thanks a lot for being on the show. I, I really... I made some great notes, and I know listeners, got a few nuggets in there for sure. So thanks a lot for being on the show today.
[00:47:20] James Johnson: My pleasure, Dustin. Thanks for having me.
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