Trent Kitsch ON: From Underwear to Cannabis - His Wild ride to Success (#130) — Transcript
Updated: Oct 26
THE PICTURE OF WEALTH · EPISODE 130
Trent Kitsch joins Dustin Serviss to discuss building businesses, defining personal success and the values and goals behind his decisions, from SAXX Underwear to cannabis.
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This transcript was generated from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. It may contain transcription or speaker-attribution errors. Refer to the recording for exact wording.
Chapters
[00:00:00] The dreams card behind Trent’s decisions
[00:02:59] When the questions about money began to change
[00:05:14] Imagining the SAXX design
[00:08:50] From an underwear exit to cannabis
[00:11:17] Using values and goals as a reference point
[00:14:14] Creating a lane rather than competing in one
[00:17:32] Mentors, expertise and help along the way
[00:19:53] Raising the first capital
[00:22:38] The ambition and work of taking a company public
[00:25:40] When the stock price matters to the business
Guest & resources
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Transcript
[00:00:00] Trent Kitsch: I have a dreams card or what some people might call a goals card, where since nineteen ninety nine, I've been writing to myself, essentially, what are the values and things that are important to me in my personal life, my health, my career, relationships. So I set these specific directions and goals for kind of every twelve to sixteen months. And so when you ask me how do I make the decisions, I'm usually looking backwards to my card because I'm not really good all the time to be at that high level. So sometimes I'm up, sometimes I'm down. And when you're down, you can read the card and say, okay. Here's where I really wanna go.
[00:00:44] Trent Kitsch: Or sometimes when you're up, you can say, okay. Well, this used to be important to me, but now it's less important to me. So it's kind of that evolution.
[00:00:53] Dustin Serviss: Welcome to the picture of wealth or TPOW as we call it. I am your host, Dustin Service. I'm excited to have Trent Kitsch on the picture of wealth or TPAW as we call it. Trent, thanks a lot for coming on the show today.
[00:01:16] Trent Kitsch: I'm glad to be here, and it's great to connect.
[00:01:19] Dustin Serviss: Trent, this is, this is super special, like, from my heart. We've known each other since we were, like, elementary school kids to... Now that would be, thirty five almost years later that we get to see the evolution of where you've come. So, you know, if you think back to when you were a ten year old kid, playground, Glenmore Elementary, did you envision you would be here? Was this at age ten, your vision of success, or you're in your home, in California? Is this what it was, or is it something different?
[00:01:54] Trent Kitsch: It is different. I think when I was a a kid, I used to draw planes all the time, and I I wanted to be a pilot. You know? And then evolved into being a... Wanted to be a major leaguer. You know? Wanted to be a baseball player. Then it evolved wanting to be in business. And, yeah, you know, I guess there's been many evolutions of the dream, and it's been amazing what has happened since you and I used to run around in Eagle Drive.
[00:02:22] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. That's right. That's right. We're gonna have all the show notes so people can look up your story and look up your bio and, you know, all that different stuff that people wanna know about people. But I wanna get right into the stories of... A lot of our listener would be right at the moment that they are successful and they kinda have a hint of that, but they haven't realized it or they need something that gives them the permission to maybe open the door to to realizing they are successful. And it isn't making money. It's more, oh, I am successful. And help us understand, was it Saks? Was it Doja? What transaction was it? Or what...
[00:02:59] Dustin Serviss: And not specific numbers, but, like, what business or what moment where you looked at Ria and you said, like, I think we can start worrying about different things now. Do you remember that?
[00:03:10] Trent Kitsch: Well, I guess the, you know, definition of success has always been taught to me that there's always somebody more wealthy, somebody always, you know, faster, somebody better at their certain thing. But if you can define your own success and achieve those dreams or goals or be pursuing a worthy ideal and achieve that goal, I think that's the definition of my success and how I define success. And there's many categories to the bucket, let's say, that you fill. But, I think my success or the success I like to share to people is define what is successful for you and in what attributes and achieve those dreams.
[00:03:57] Dustin Serviss: Back in the Saks thing, that came out of you fishing, wasn't it? And then you wanted some different underwear. So may... Maybe give us a two minute of that story because I think it's important setup for where I'm going.
[00:04:09] Trent Kitsch: Yeah. It it was, in the Queen Charlotte Islands in the summer of two thousand and seven, and I was fishing with my dad for salmon and wearing one of those big red ocean suits, like, they wear on, like, the deadliest catch, for example. And it was in the front of the boat for, like, three days, and, you know, you're not talking to your dad for three days. There's nothing to talk about. So it's quiet there for, like, hours, and I was just sitting there in the front of the boat. And I was uncomfortable as, like, all guys can relate to and had a little bit more contact than I was, you know, liking. And so I was just staring off onto the horizon.
[00:04:47] Trent Kitsch: I thought to myself, how can I reinvent men's underwear to prevent contact and be more comfortable? That was the question in my intro. And, fortunately, I was a baseball player once upon a life, and I was a back catcher. And I'd always been around a lot of garments and designs and things to try to protect you when you're blocking baseballs or getting foul tips. And so I'd I'd been kind of an inventor, a creator,
[00:05:14] Dustin Serviss: or
[00:05:14] Trent Kitsch: a guinea pig of all these things for decades. And then what I did on the boat was in my mind's eye. I just drew the sack side panels in, like, a three d x y kind
[00:05:28] Dustin Serviss: of how Yeah. Yeah.
[00:05:29] Trent Kitsch: Works like blueprint. And then, morphed all the jocks and all the sliding shorts and things that I had worn over the years into what was sacks in the boat. So I was designing it in my mind just quietly. And and when I got back to shore, I drew it, started drawing it in the cabin, and started drawing the sack side panels. And and then it was just again, fortunately, that I was going back to school at that time to do my master's in business, my second year of my MBA, and you had to do a new venture project Oh, perfect. Or what was called a IV client field project, which was like a consulting project. So I told school about my idea.
[00:06:17] Trent Kitsch: It didn't have a name yet, and they thought it was a bad idea. And they thought it was, like, kind of a joke or that it was really up to the standards. But then a few professors at Ivy really got in my corner and let me try it and said, you know, let him try it if he thinks it's a good idea. And so I went to the Royal Bank, and I, had that tuition receipt for Ivy. And I needed to get some money to start my business. So I went and applied for a student loan with my tuition receipt and said I was gonna use it to pay my school. And then I used that twenty thousand instead as my startup capital and went to
[00:07:07] Trent Kitsch: Fanshawe College and found a fashion designer at the fashion school who had previously done patterns for underwear, and the fashion school dean thought I was just there trying to meet girls and thought it was a bad idea. And then hired a really great fashion designer to do the first patterns. And then on the weekends from school, I would go down to Toronto and to the fashion district and go to different fabric suppliers. And I just started building up the idea step by step and figuring it out as I went. You know? So kind of a summary of that is within three months from September to December is when I had my first prototype,
[00:07:51] Trent Kitsch: and I had enough money to make the first two hundred pairs and bought bags and printed off the labels at my apartment. And then I started selling them at the cafeteria, like, the student union building at the university. Right. Cafeteria. I just, like, pulled out a table and set up my little booth in the middle of school, and then I sold them on the weekends. I would drive down to Toronto the first weekend there and set up a booth or set up on the street in front of Lululemon on Queen Street West, and I sold pairs there on, like, the Saturday and Sunday. And that's how I sold my first two hundred pairs.
[00:08:32] Dustin Serviss: And that was enough to,
[00:08:34] Trent Kitsch: I was like, that's kinda like the the three minute of how Saks started.
[00:08:38] Dustin Serviss: Well... Yeah. It it finishes off with a, a great exit to... Who did you exit to?
[00:08:44] Trent Kitsch: It was a company called No Limits Distribution that was our distribution partner.
[00:08:50] Dustin Serviss: Nice. So they bought you out. You parlayed that, and you put that into the cannabis industry, took a company public Yeah. Exited that, or are you put... Still part of that?
[00:09:02] Trent Kitsch: No. I basically, again, kind of was just inspired one day sitting with one of my friends and heard that the Canadian government was going to federally legalize cannabis. And so I just understood, I guess, from paying attention to how when laws change, it creates opportunities. And so I had just recently sold a good portion of my previous business and then collected a few great people to sell them on the idea to potentially start this business. And another great cofounder of mine was, Ryan Foreman, who I worked with at Saks. And he and I and Ria, my wife, started Doja. And then very soon thereafter, we were fortunate enough to
[00:09:51] Trent Kitsch: have another Kelowna gentleman, Jeff Barber, join as the CFO. And so the four of us started Doja. This was early. This is, like, you know, two thousand and fifteen. At that time, it was called Northern Lights Campus Company. K. And we made an application to the federal government to have a license to produce. And so there was hundreds of applicants and thousands of applicants, and we were there very early. And then, also, we were very polite to the balance of power that Health Canada had, and we're very efficient in getting through the process. And and we're lucky enough to be one of the first licensed producers.
[00:10:37] Dustin Serviss: Right. I'll just pause there for a sec because there is many moments that I see big decisions or I see, you know, you have choice that's fraught with risk. There's lots of risk, lots of relationship risk, lots of financial risk, lots of personal time waste risk. How do you make decisions? That's a big question. But
[00:11:00] Trent Kitsch: Mhmm.
[00:11:01] Dustin Serviss: When you've got a big decision to make, is there a process that you go through to mitigate your risk, maximize opportunity, and sort of ultimately make a decision and move forward on offense instead of being, you know, sort of defensive?
[00:11:17] Trent Kitsch: Yeah. It's a great question, and it's like a two part answer. The the first part is that I have a dreams card or what some people might call a goals card, where since nineteen ninety nine, I've been writing to myself, essentially, what are the values and things that are important to me in my personal life, my health, my career, relationships. And and so I set these specific directions and goals for kind of every twelve to sixteen months. And so when you ask me, you know, how do I make the decisions, I'm usually looking backwards to my card and... Because I'm not really good all the time to be at that high level.
[00:11:59] Trent Kitsch: So sometimes I'm up, sometimes I'm down. And when you're down, you can read the card and say, okay. Here's where I really wanna go. Or Yeah. You know, sometimes when you're up, you can say, you know, okay. Well, this used to be important to me, but now it's less important to me. So it's kind of that evolution. And then with regards to how I decide to spend my time and, you know, that is the most valuable resource we all have, I'm very curious about certain things. Things come to me sometimes, and it's not necessarily when you're trying to force it, but I just try to put myself in the right
[00:12:37] Trent Kitsch: environments and around the right people where you're staying current. And I'm I'm really always trying to measure my risk, of course, but also take advantage of the things that I have experience in or the social capital and the the success that might be from taking on a project. So, for example, today, I'm going to downtown Los Angeles to look at some historic buildings because it's always been a dream of mine to redevelop a historic building. And so not that I'm buying that deal today, but since I've been down here, I'm building my knowledge. I'm going through Excel and writing what is the
[00:13:25] Trent Kitsch: price per square foot of land and buildings and kinda just looking at what is the playground, what is the field before I would make an investment, but that's an example.
[00:13:36] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. No. It's a good example, and it's a good segue to the trade kitsch at twenty two had a different vision for sort of, like, gotta make money, and I'm gonna put myself on the map. You're already on the map now. People can look you up online, figure out roughly probably what you made or what you make. It's like you're financially fine for, you know, probably your life. So so what keeps driving you now to wanna go take on that stress of maybe a building or if if it isn't necessarily money? Or is it the money? There is something that's truly still important to keep growing and achieving that.
[00:14:14] Trent Kitsch: I think it's more creativity than anything else that I'm interested in and design and and things like that that stimulate me and then buy a byproduct. Maybe it's money after. But I don't think my first instinct is money. And I think my first instinct oftentimes is, like, you know, there's this theory about competition. If you compete with everybody else, you're in that lane versus if you create something or create something new, you create a lane. So I'm always trying to kind of find those spots where I can create something or be creative or be part of a new industry that doesn't have incumbents and create my own lane.
[00:15:00] Dustin Serviss: What resonates with me is I I think my MO was always, like, get in school. You have very logical thinking. And when I see the path that you have taken, you were more of a... You're an athlete for one, you know, which that's got its own thing. And then you were more on the creative side. Like, your buddy group in high school, first year university was definitely more out there group, and almost all those guys have become successful in whatever they're doing. So there... There's no right way to do it, I think, is my point. And, you know, you have a vision at the start, and then you still come back.
[00:15:35] Dustin Serviss: So I appreciate what you've done, and I would love to know sort of who along the way has helped you sort of get over some of your own mindset blockages. So if you've been... You know, maybe I'm gonna do this opportunity, but then someone has helped you with a different perspective. And, you know, maybe who that person is or what did they say to you to help you see a different side, and then you went for it and it became a good opportunity.
[00:16:02] Trent Kitsch: Well, I'd say a few names came to mind during that question. Like, there's there's definitely some people that have been huge mentors to me and instilled great new confidences in me. And, obviously, my parents being the first, my parents were entrepreneurs and definitely taught my sister and I to believe in yourself and rely on yourself and independence and and those are the things that were really important values that were taught to to my sister and I. And then some coaches that I had, some incredible coaches in baseball and and even, you know, kind of coming up. But Greg Hamilton is another name, the national team coach
[00:16:46] Trent Kitsch: for Canada, the junior national team who believed in me and put me on a new direction for sure. And then at university, Stuart Thornhill, my MBA professor, who was the first investor in Saks, He was someone who was really in my corner and believed in me. Bob Norris, the founder of the the Bombay company, who was a IB MBA professor as well, who always made me feel smarter than I was. You know? Like Yeah. You're in this peer group of super competitive, smart people, and he always would remind me it's about knowing what questions to ask versus being able to answer every question. And then being an example of how to start a company and go
[00:17:32] Trent Kitsch: overseas and find low cost region supply. Like, when I was developing Saks, these experts were all around me at Ivy, and that was such an incredible incubator before there was really, like, incubators. Right? But I was I was in one there. And then since that time, Mike Dalton, another person from Kelowna who I really admire and look up to. And so I've been blessed as I think everyone who's been through the chain has helped someone as they've been helped. So I've been very blessed by a lot of people who've who've helped me. Pastor Tim Schroeder is another name that comes up. So, yeah, I I think I've been really blessed.
[00:18:14] Trent Kitsch: And then my sister, she's always been a huge inspiration to me, and and I look up to my sister. And she's, like, the reason I even got out of diving because she was there before me, and I would have, like, never even got in there without her. But to your point about certain points in life and little spots which change your trajectory, all those people changed my trajectory positively.
[00:18:36] Dustin Serviss: Yeah. Hundred percent. And one thing that I've always admired about you would be, your level of humbleness and sort of keeping friends with the people you've been friends with for a long time even though your wealth has has accumulated. Is is there anything specific when I say the word humble or staying humble that you'd like to prescribe by or sort of subtle wealth? Or how do you value that?
[00:18:56] Trent Kitsch: Yeah. I think it's a a balance, of course. Right? I'm confident in my abilities, but I'm also humble. And, again, like my dad used to say, you know, if the story is good enough, other people will tell it for you. So, you know, that's a cool thing to think about. And then I used to prescribe to that in Saks and any business I do as well. If the the product or the service is good enough, that means other people will tell their friends or other people about it. And and that has been true in all my business success as well. So I think that is a little jewel that is both personal and business that I live by.
[00:19:35] Dustin Serviss: How do you compartmentalize taking people's money, investing it? You've obviously had some big wins, and it's worked out. How did you digest, well, what if it doesn't work out? Or is that something that, you know, you have a... Just an open discussion with the investor about?
[00:19:53] Trent Kitsch: Well, I I think the first time with regards to Saks and raising capital for the first time ever, that was unique in that there was no value for the business. I just thought it was a a million dollar idea. So the first time I took on money, it was, five five percent fifty thousand. And that was my MBA professor, and that was both because we just thought it was a million dollar idea. He wouldn't be interested in it if he didn't think it was, and I wouldn't be interested in going out on the road by myself if I didn't think it was. Yeah. So now I set the first round of Saks. Nice.
[00:20:27] Trent Kitsch: And then onward from that, you learn a little bit more about, you know, what's the multiples in your industry, what's the growth rate of your business. You know? So then you start to become more intelligent about raising capital. And then when we raised capital for Doja, really, it was a founder's capital for a long time. Like myself, Ryan, Ria, and Jeff funded it for years. So Right. Then we took on outside capital because it was always a goal of mine on my dreams card to take a company public. So that was, like, you know, getting the amount of investors and getting,
[00:21:02] Trent Kitsch: yeah, definitely, like you say, friends and family involved in the very early round when it was, like, the highest risk. And and so in that case, it really worked out incredibly for everyone who was in those pre seed rounds and early rounds. But then, again, conversely, I... I've had losses as well. You know, I've invested in private businesses since then and and lost capital, and I've been involved in the cannabis industry since the highs and now through the lows. So there's definitely, wins and losses, I think, in any business person's career. But, ultimately, the group of investors sometimes
[00:21:41] Trent Kitsch: gets smaller because everyone has a little bit more capital, so you don't need as many people at the table. But then, also, again, if you're gonna be doing something, in a public company, you're gonna have tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of investors. I think it's different in case specific, but starting a business and taking on investors' capital is really always about honesty and integrity and doing the best that you can do with what is under your control as the CEO or founder or cofounder, and then being honest about the things that are out of your control, be it, you know, the market conditions or interest rates
[00:22:21] Trent Kitsch: or or things like that.
[00:22:22] Dustin Serviss: Yeah.
[00:22:23] Trent Kitsch: So you're, you know, the captain of the ship, and they're betting on you as a captain. And they'll understand if it was a hurricane came through, but you were still the captain. You did everything the best that the captain could do. Right. That's the way I think about it.
[00:22:38] Dustin Serviss: So when you put that goal card thing down, take a company public, outside of now the feeling of of the monetary Mhmm. Would you still put that down based on how much work it is?
[00:22:51] Trent Kitsch: Yeah. Yeah. I think I would. And certain ideas take a lot of capital and a lot of sophistication too, so you can attract, certain talent when you have the share as compensation, let's say, also Mhmm. Lets you, be involved in m and a to a certain level because you have the the share as currency. At the same time, you're for sale every day because the public market is saying you're worth this today, and your peer group or the larger cap companies are always paying attention to that as well. Right. So I think I think I would not go public again, but I do think there are a lot of instances where it doesn't make sense to be
[00:23:38] Trent Kitsch: public at certain revenue levels. And you see a lot of great private businesses rolling up private businesses one day in the plans to go public. So I think, again, it's really case specific. And if you can trade on a higher exchange, all the better. You know? So if you're... We were on the CSE because that was the only thing we were allowed to be. But if you can climb up to the the venture, the TSX or Nasdaq and NYSE, you're a very serious company. Right. You know, to qualify for those levels as you climb. But, yeah, I think it's very case specific for all of your listeners.
[00:24:22] Dustin Serviss: Is there a mix, like, when you're running your company to take it public opposed to running a business to collect income and do the best for the client. Can you blend both? In my head, I think, oh, go public means we're gonna run this business to, like, maximize value, exit public, then it's someone else's thing, and I'm out maybe staying as a minority shareholder. Where if you're running something private, small, and just sort of, like, really making it, you know, just chug along and and doing the best, can it be either or, or can you make it amped? Like, good Well for the end user and good as a build it to exit?
[00:24:59] Trent Kitsch: There's so many incredible private businesses out there, you know, that are great businesses. And once you take a company public, you really have what I I like to think of or share as two two products now. You have your actual business that still has to run and still has to be managed and still has to produce its goods or service. And then you have the stock, which is now its own new product that is... Has to be understood and and is its own vehicle, has investor relations, has different shorting pressures, has... You know, so many things are happening just on that front now too. So as a CEO, you really have to understand there's almost two
[00:25:40] Trent Kitsch: products now once you go public. There's the the stock price, which matters when you're, you know, raising capital or if you're doing m and a. And during periods where you're not doing those things, it it still matters, of course, to the investors and yourself as a shareholder. But there's, again, different periods when the stock really matters a a lot. You know, if you're trying to do financings or, again, if you're in an industry that is facing headwinds or or tailwinds, it's... It all matters.
[00:26:12] Dustin Serviss: Trent, thanks a lot for coming on the show today. I really appreciated the time and definitely enjoyed watching the journey, and it will continue to watch, what's going on working listener find you online and follow, your next good idea.
[00:26:26] Trent Kitsch: Well, I just am available. I'm on Instagram, Trent Kitsch, but also I wish all the listeners and yourself, you know, good luck with their journeys. And I'm still obviously on mine, and I just encourage all the entrepreneurs and people out there to believe in themselves and, you know, take a little action every day that your future self will thank you for.
[00:26:51] Dustin Serviss: Trent, thanks a lot. And, I might come down and visit you down, on the coast. So
[00:26:56] Trent Kitsch: Good. Good.
[00:26:57] Dustin Serviss: Stay in touch.
[00:26:58] Trent Kitsch: Thanks. Have a great day, Doug.
[00:26:59] Dustin Serviss: You too. Thank you for tuning in to this episode. If you enjoyed the show, please like and rate the show, share with a friend, or use your new knowledge in your next conversation. If during the show something gave you a pang of inspiration, motivation, or sense of uncertainty, act on it now. Get the clarity you're looking for. Find the permission you seek. Go to servicewealth dot com to discover how others are learning how to take Fridays off or buying a recreation property or spending more money. If you're an organizer of an event where you believe my philosophy on finance
[00:27:28] Dustin Serviss: lifestyle design would be applicable, go to servicewealth dot com and book me as a speaker at your next event. If you want a copy of our new book coming out soon, send me a message on Instagram or Facebook and we will be sure to get you a first copy.